[Chris - CBWC]

As someone who recently (Feb) switched from trad to wfp I'm struggling with the right technique to get the window spotless.

Example (and I'm only on my second or third cleans since switching from trad, which could well be a factor):

A - Some people say scrub the frames, scrub the glass, then rinse an inch or two from the top of the glass - when I do this, there are small white spots across the top of the glass where I hadn't rinsed.

B - Others say rinse from the top frame all the way down the glass - I tried this and got dirty streaks down the middle of some windows on two different houses.  So I get home and try this method on my own windows and they are spotless, though my double glazing does not have the black rubber seal as some of my houses do - would I need to scrub these seals a lot to begin with?

Having spent a lot of time on each first clean - above the top frame, all frames, sills, glass - I'm now very keen on the second clean onwards, to push on, speed up, earn more but I know my work isn't up to my standards (I know about our keen eye).

I have seen others not touch the top frame any more, but if I've scrubbed it clean then it makes sense to keep it clean - will a quick once over, left to right be enough?  Having gone back for the second cleans, I see some top frames have a few dirty marks on them, which makes me think I either didn't scrub the top frames well enough, or I didn't rinse the top frames when I should (method B above).

I put above that cleaning left to right at the tops of the glass left lines of droplets that dry dirty - is that because it's only the first couple of cleans or because I hadn't scrubbed enough?  Maybe rinsing from the top of the glass will remove these spots (again method B)

There's also a lot of advice on rinse, rinse and rinse again, which massively increases the workload and time taken, plus water wastage - is this just the first 2 or 3 cleans and you can then rinse less?  Rinsing is fine when it sheets down, but if it only sheets down the middle i.e. beads down the edges of the glass, I have trouble getting a spotless finish - there are lines of spots down the edges of the glass.  I don't yet know what the finish is on hydrophobic glass but that is a real pain to rinse and I never know how quickly or slowly to rinse - rinsing moving left to right you can see zig-zags of where I have moved the brush (rinsing off glass) and the water has hit but obviously beading down during the rinse it doesn't seem to hit all of the window like when it sheets down.

So should I be scrubbing the glass less (and not as hard, I'm sure I'm gripping the pole to tightly and pushing onto the glass too hard) and rinsing the frames and glass more?

Yes my water is 000 before anyone asks!  I'm currently using SLX18 and an Xtreme soft flocked hybrid I think it is - I'm only little and the Xtreme MM was much harder work.

Sorry for all the questions but if it helps other newbies like myself, or even helps with putting together some sort of guide to techniques (and yes I have scoured Google and YouTube many times already) then brilliant.

[bobplum]

isnt ian lancaster around you way?? ask him and spend a day with him

[Afterglow Window Cleaners]

1st clean I usually scrub and rinse the hell out of the top frames then clean the glass and rinse.

Then when I have done all the windows, I go back and rinse all glass again apart from top openers.

Usually works great for first cleans and makes all subsequent cleans a doddle.

[rah]

Always better to loose time on first clean, you'll regain it back later! If really dirty I always charge a little more £5-£10, but I know I 'll reap the benifit's later.

[Jonny 87]

1st clean I usually scrub and rinse the hell out of the top frames then clean the glass and rinse.

Then when I have done all the windows, I go back and rinse all glass again apart from top openers.

Usually works great for first cleans and makes all subsequent cleans a doddle.

+1

I would also stop using the extreme brush. I used them for a while, but found that they lacked scrubbing power. If the windows were already very clean then it's fine, but much dirt and they struggle.

It seems like the problem you have is with the final rinse.

I can tell because you describe the dirt as dots or runs etc, and not smears or smudges.

Now your on your second or third clean WFP I would concentrate on the glass. Forget the top frame for now just do you get your confidence up.

Get the top seal clean by scrubbing side to side a few times, then just two standard scrubs, all the way to the top, all the way to the bottom.

finish your scrubbing phase by going along the bottom 6 inches as this is where the dirt can gather and cause a problem.

Then it's two options for the final rinse;
But in both instances keep the brush head as close to the glass as possible without touching the glass. This stops a lot of spotting.

Hydrophobic
Slowly rinse about 2cm from the top edge
Then go down either side closest to the frame leaving just the middle of the glass to be rinsed.
Then rinse the middle.
This stops a lot of spotting on the edges from hydrophobic.

Hydrophilic
Nice and easy, again keep the brush as close to glass as poss but just zig zag down 2cm from the top edge.

There's also flow rate you've got to consider. You want a gentle "droop" in the jets as it hits the glass, not like a pressure washer. This will cause spotting too.

That's the best I can give you without actually working with you for a day I think.

You might find though that things start getting better, I've always found that problems seem to happen within the first 3 WFP cleans. Then everywhere gets pretty "sterilised" with pure so it limits future problems.

[Chris - CBWC]

Tvm Jonny, that helps a lot.  I read a lot about having a high flow rate to speed up the rinse, and I was doing first cleans on 60, which obviously helps with all the dirt.  I'm trying to lower the rate, currently on 44, but it's such a pain rinsing (especially hydrophobic) when it takes so long.  But with the pressure from the pencil jets (I did an autocal today because it keeps pushing my ezsnap female out of the reel hose, it went down from 32 to 31) I can see how spotting might be a problem - would 30 or 35 be better?  Sound like trading speed for less splash?  I guess the angle of the brush also comes into play, mine is roughly square onto the glass, or maybe slightly pointing downwards, so I can splay the outer bristles and make the inners scrub too.

The only other brush I have is a DT MM sill brush, which I don't think scrubbed very well on first cleans so I switched to the Xtremes, though I've had no problem with scrubbing - they've dealt with bird muck very well.  If I was to go to the heavier brush, something like the SL DT flocked?  I do like the flocked brushes, and it means it easier for me to get the inners scrubbing too.

One thing I forgot was I think I was holding the pole way too tightly and pressing onto the glass way too much/hard - was causing me pain in my fingers, hands gripping tightly and pushing it onto the glass.  Am I right in thinking I need to relax into it more and let the bristles do the work rather than me trying to push the brush through the glass into the house!

Always better to loose time on first clean, you'll regain it back later! If really dirty I always charge a little more £5-£10, but I know I 'll reap the benifit's later.

Aye that was my thinking.  I spent AGES scrubbing above the top frames, and rinsing all the crud out, they really looked great.  Don't know about the finish on the glass though!  Frustrating to take so long but was looking beyond that to the second and third cleans, which I'm now at and it's still taking too long doh.  I should probably be more patient with myself.

Slowly rinse about 2cm from the top edge

This is where the spotting is, particularly in the corners (and right at the bottom in the corners which I guess is down to scrubbing power and rinsing) so I'm guessing I'm not scrubbing it properly, but I find it really difficult to get at the corners of first floor windows - is it best to go over the frames either side a bit as well to get the best scrub on the top of the glass?  I can't think of another option if I'm not rinsing the top of the glass.

[Jonny 87]

I think if your rinsing as close enough to the top edge then really you shouldn't get spotting. A couple of cm is nothing. But it stops you pulling dirt out the rubber seals.

[Chris - CBWC]

It does take a lot of effort though trying to raise the brush up the glass to get it just below the top of the glass, especially on first floor windows, an arm killer, and time killer

[Jonny 87]

You get used to it mate.

I just do it without thinking now.

You will get there. Just keep on going.

[SB Cleaning]

1st clean I usually scrub and rinse the hell out of the top frames then clean the glass and rinse.

Then when I have done all the windows, I go back and rinse all glass again apart from top openers.

Usually works great for first cleans and makes all subsequent cleans a doddle.

Leave the top frame on 2nd clean?  Frames should be cleaned each and every clean as soon as a bit if pure hits that dirty frame its gonna leave marks and rinsing 2cm below frame I wouldn't be doing either

+1

I would also stop using the extreme brush. I used them for a while, but found that they lacked scrubbing power. If the windows were already very clean then it's fine, but much dirt and they struggle.

It seems like the problem you have is with the final rinse.

I can tell because you describe the dirt as dots or runs etc, and not smears or smudges.

Now your on your second or third clean WFP I would concentrate on the glass. Forget the top frame for now just do you get your confidence up.

Get the top seal clean by scrubbing side to side a few times, then just two standard scrubs, all the way to the top, all the way to the bottom.

finish your scrubbing phase by going along the bottom 6 inches as this is where the dirt can gather and cause a problem.

Then it's two options for the final rinse;
But in both instances keep the brush head as close to the glass as possible without touching the glass. This stops a lot of spotting.

Hydrophobic
Slowly rinse about 2cm from the top edge
Then go down either side closest to the frame leaving just the middle of the glass to be rinsed.
Then rinse the middle.
This stops a lot of spotting on the edges from hydrophobic.

Hydrophilic
Nice and easy, again keep the brush as close to glass as poss but just zig zag down 2cm from the top edge.

There's also flow rate you've got to consider. You want a gentle "droop" in the jets as it hits the glass, not like a pressure washer. This will cause spotting too.

That's the best I can give you without actually working with you for a day I think.

You might find though that things start getting better, I've always found that problems seem to happen within the first 3 WFP cleans. Then everywhere gets pretty "sterilised" with pure so it limits future problems.

[Chris - CBWC]

Whereabouts would you rinse from?  Giving the top frame a couple of left to right scrubs might not be enough to remove the dirt since the last clean

[Jonny 87]

1st clean I usually scrub and rinse the hell out of the top frames then clean the glass and rinse.

Then when I have done all the windows, I go back and rinse all glass again apart from top openers.

Usually works great for first cleans and makes all subsequent cleans a doddle.

Leave the top frame on 2nd clean?  Frames should be cleaned each and every clean as soon as a bit if pure hits that dirty frame its gonna leave marks and rinsing 2cm below frame I wouldn't be doing either

+1

I would also stop using the extreme brush. I used them for a while, but found that they lacked scrubbing power. If the windows were already very clean then it's fine, but much dirt and they struggle.

It seems like the problem you have is with the final rinse.

I can tell because you describe the dirt as dots or runs etc, and not smears or smudges.

Now your on your second or third clean WFP I would concentrate on the glass. Forget the top frame for now just do you get your confidence up.

Get the top seal clean by scrubbing side to side a few times, then just two standard scrubs, all the way to the top, all the way to the bottom.

finish your scrubbing phase by going along the bottom 6 inches as this is where the dirt can gather and cause a problem.

Then it's two options for the final rinse;
But in both instances keep the brush head as close to the glass as possible without touching the glass. This stops a lot of spotting.

Hydrophobic
Slowly rinse about 2cm from the top edge
Then go down either side closest to the frame leaving just the middle of the glass to be rinsed.
Then rinse the middle.
This stops a lot of spotting on the edges from hydrophobic.

Hydrophilic
Nice and easy, again keep the brush as close to glass as poss but just zig zag down 2cm from the top edge.

There's also flow rate you've got to consider. You want a gentle "droop" in the jets as it hits the glass, not like a pressure washer. This will cause spotting too.

That's the best I can give you without actually working with you for a day I think.

You might find though that things start getting better, I've always found that problems seem to happen within the first 3 WFP cleans. Then everywhere gets pretty "sterilised" with pure so it limits future problems.

I suggested to leave the top frame so he can get his glass technique right. Then once that is down, move back to doing the  top frame.

I would expect you must get a lot of drip down runs if you rinse right to the beading at the top of a window. By rinsing 2 cm from the beading it eliminates run downs. I've already got the top 2 cm clean with my scrubbing.

[Chris - CBWC]

I might have partially solved my problem but please let me know if I'm wrong again!

Should it be like 30% scrubbing, 70% rinsing?

I think I was doing the reverse and wasting far too much energy.  I tried to relax into it a lot more today, hold the pole less tightly, press less onto the glass and let the brush do all the work (like when tradding you let the squeegee do the work don't force it), saving unnecessary extra use of my hands, arms, elbows.

Left right scrubs at the top, two up downs, left right at bottom then rinse just below top.

Took slightly longer during the rinse if it beaded on the edges for example but overall I was a bit quicker on the house. I trad some ground floor again now, I'm quicker with trad at the moment

[SeanK]

I might have partially solved my problem but please let me know if I'm wrong again!

Should it be like 30% scrubbing, 70% rinsing?

I think I was doing the reverse and wasting far too much energy.  I tried to relax into it a lot more today, hold the pole less tightly, press less onto the glass and let the brush do all the work (like when tradding you let the squeegee do the work don't force it), saving unnecessary extra use of my hands, arms, elbows.

Left right scrubs at the top, two up downs, left right at bottom then rinse just below top.

Took slightly longer during the rinse if it beaded on the edges for example but overall I was a bit quicker on the house. I trad some ground floor again now, I'm quicker with trad at the moment

No rinsing only removes a small amount at the end and if you look at the way the water runs down the glass there's
no way you would be hitting every mm of it.
Scrubbing loosens the dirt and rinses it off at the same time and is easier on the arms.
A lot of guys don't rinse at all and don't get spotting and then there are guys that rinse with the brush on the glass
which at the end of the day is just a scrub with very little pressure.
I would scrub for 70% and rinse for 30%.

[SeanK]

When cleaning a window with rubber seals rub a damp microfiber along the rubber and if
it leaves black marks then its going to cause problems.
What you need to do with these is make sure you don't leave any water beads on the rubber.
Scrub and rinse along the rubber then scrub and rinse the rest of the window, go back to the top
and rub the brush along the rubber to remove any water beads and then rinse again from about two inches
below.

[SeanK]

Be very careful when putting water above vents or openers.
Some wont cause you any problems but some leak out dirty water clean after clean.
Frames with two or more small openers above a large fixed window can be prone to this, what happens is
water sits on the top of the openers and slowly drips down between them onto the glass below
leaving a dirty run mark.

[Chris - CBWC]

When cleaning a window with rubber seals rub a damp microfiber along the rubber and if
it leaves black marks then its going to cause problems.
What you need to do with these is make sure you don't leave any water beads on the rubber.
Scrub and rinse along the rubber then scrub and rinse the rest of the window, go back to the top
and rub the brush along the rubber to remove any water beads and then rinse again from about two inches
below.

You do this on all the upstairs windows?  I can see why it might be necessary to find problem windows but this does seem like a lot of extra work, and I already think I'm doing too much as it is!

Not many of my houses have vents, but those that do, I did a really good first clean above them, getting all the crud out, then was very careful at cleaning the tiny part of framework just below the vent.  I now don't go above the vent for the reasons you describe and am still careful to clean the frame.

As you say, any water going inside the vent could drip out later and leave dirty streaks.

[SeanK]

When cleaning a window with rubber seals rub a damp microfiber along the rubber and if
it leaves black marks then its going to cause problems.
What you need to do with these is make sure you don't leave any water beads on the rubber.
Scrub and rinse along the rubber then scrub and rinse the rest of the window, go back to the top
and rub the brush along the rubber to remove any water beads and then rinse again from about two inches
below.

You do this on all the upstairs windows?  I can see why it might be necessary to find problem windows but this does seem like a lot of extra work, and I already think I'm doing too much as it is!

Not many of my houses have vents, but those that do, I did a really good first clean above them, getting all the crud out, then was very careful at cleaning the tiny part of framework just below the vent.  I now don't go above the vent for the reasons you describe and am still careful to clean the frame.

As you say, any water going inside the vent could drip out later and leave dirty streaks.

No just do it on one ground floor window on a first clean, the rest will more than likely be the same
after that you get to know what properties to take extra care with.

[J.D]

It can take as many as three cleans before a window eventually becomes spot free and sterile. Its always a good idea to leave an explanation letter with your customer after you have cleaned their windows with WFP for the first time.