[paul ette]

getting busier and got a lot more advertising im planning on doing to bring in new custom.

at mo i get a lad to help on busier days, he just trads the bottoms as i only have a 1 man setup.

my question is , is it really worth getting a 2 man setup as its a lot of cost (new van and system)?
is it that much faster?
the guy im using is really slow and misses frames all the time but im sure he will pick up as he has no experience.

so 2 man setup of trad bottoms?

[SeanK]

I cant see why not, I started as a wfp cleaner but do the odd bit of ground floor traditional work.
As a person with very little experience in traditional cleaning I still can get good results in a
reasonable time.
With a bit more experience I think that I could equal my wfp times on ground floor windows.
WFP the tops and trad the bottoms is the way I would go if I decided to employ.
Two sets of snagging hoses would put me over the edge.

[paul ette]

its a lot of expense swapping over so unsure what to do really

[Smudger]

Yes WFP is quicker than trad ( and gets better results - but that's my opinion and not the subject of the thread )

With 2 man set ups you can do a house each, or front and back depends on the size or compact nature of the work.

Our two man teams do approx 60% more than a one man one van option.

However, large commercial jobs, SFG work, conny roofs are usually 100% faster and a real benefit is your not as shattered at the end of the day.

Putting in another reel, controller and pole isn't that expensive

Darran

[paul ette]

thanks smudger, its the bigger tank and a van that can hold it thats the cost, i use a transit connect with a 400 litre heated ro system and when its full the van cant take no more weight, so gotta get a bigger van with bigger system.

but if thats what i gotta do suppose it will be worth it in future

[Smudger]

Do you use a DIY system?

From what I've seen on eBay you'd get really good money for a "window cleaners van"

Then pick up a cheaper larger van fit it out and you might come out even...

Darran

[SeanK]

Paul this is a pro wfp forum and most on here would tell you a black horse is white when
it comes to wfp window cleaning.
I get the feeling that there are more equipment sellers than cleaners on here.
My advice would be to take the guy on with the system you have, then take it in turns to clean using both
methods.
When your both up to speed which shouldn't take long you will be able to work out if it would be
more profitable to go fully wfp or not.
I know guys who make way to much money using traditional methods to even consider converting to
wfp but if you listened to some on here you would think it impossible.

[paul ette]

Ive got a system that was built and installed by k systems. Works very well.

Ye I've seen how fast some people can trad. 

[KS Cleaning]

getting busier and got a lot more advertising im planning on doing to bring in new custom.

at mo i get a lad to help on busier days, he just trads the bottoms as i only have a 1 man setup.

my question is , is it really worth getting a 2 man setup as its a lot of cost (new van and system)?
is it that much faster?
the guy im using is really slow and misses frames all the time but im sure he will pick up as he has no experience.

so 2 man setup of trad bottoms?

I would think if he has no experience, it would be better for him to wfp tops and you trad bottoms as wfp is easier to pick up. Also makes more sense as I take it it is you who knocks the doors for payment rather than the helper.

[Jonny 87]

Paul this is a pro wfp forum and most on here would tell you a black horse is white when
it comes to wfp window cleaning.
I get the feeling that there are more equipment sellers than cleaners on here.
My advice would be to take the guy on with the system you have, then take it in turns to clean using both
methods.
When your both up to speed which shouldn't take long you will be able to work out if it would be
more profitable to go fully wfp or not.
I know guys who make way to much money using traditional methods to even consider converting to
wfp but if you listened to some on here you would think it impossible.

You might be right Sean.

But It's also true that the guys you see doing VERY well for themselves are WFP. You can make good money whatever method you use, but there's no getting over the fact that a skilled wfp'er is  considerably quicker than doing it traditional.

Trad is for the easy life though and you can still do very very well. No overheads and keeps the oldies happy.

[paul ette]

So because of even more over heads getting 2 men on a pole do you think it's worth it?

[Joe Bromley]

Why not apply the pressure and say "I can take you on for more days if you make me money - you need to speed up and be more thorough"

Money talks.

[Jonny 87]

So because of even more over heads getting 2 men on a pole do you think it's worth it?

I would say its worth it in the long run.

The problem with WFP tops and trad bottoms is that who ever is doing downstairs will need to wait till drips finish and can end up being held up. And that's wasted time. If you both have WFP then one does fronts and one does backs, or start on opposites houses.

If it was me id get a trolley system. 25 litres, and fit a bilge pump in your van. Your trolley will fill in seconds.

 

[firefly123]

how can you say that wfp gets better results than trad rubbish youi will all ways get 100 %  with trad but you neer know with wfp i have been trad 30 years  and 7 wfp  so i use both but always get a better with trad where i=we can use it

[SeanK]

how can you say that wfp gets better results than trad rubbish youi will all ways get 100 %  with trad but you neer know with wfp i have been trad 30 years  and 7 wfp  so i use both but always get a better with trad where i=we can use it

Because for some reason when a person goes wfp all common sense goes out the window.
Of course traditional cleaning will give you better results because you have total control over
the clean.
99% of windows will come up perfect by a good window cleaner using traditional methods theres no way you
will get it as high as that using wfp.
If some of these guys done a bit more interior cleaning they would soon see how many faults wfp
cleaning can leave on the glass.

[Chris - CBWC]

how can you say that wfp gets better results than trad rubbish youi will all ways get 100 %  with trad but you neer know with wfp i have been trad 30 years  and 7 wfp  so i use both but always get a better with trad where i=we can use it

Because for some reason when a person goes wfp all common sense goes out the window.
Of course traditional cleaning will give you better results because you have total control over
the clean.
99% of windows will come up perfect by a good window cleaner using traditional methods theres no way you
will get it as high as that using wfp.
If some of these guys done a bit more interior cleaning they would soon see how many faults wfp
cleaning can leave on the glass.

Aye this is why I need help with switching to wfp!  Was great at trad, if a bit slow and lazy, did some insides today and could easily see where the external clean has gone wrong, just not why....

[Jonny 87]

how can you say that wfp gets better results than trad rubbish youi will all ways get 100 %  with trad but you neer know with wfp i have been trad 30 years  and 7 wfp  so i use both but always get a better with trad where i=we can use it

^^^^^^^^^^
I'm not even going to say the obvious. Lol

I check my work every day.

Spotless.

Went through the whole of 2013 without a single complaint. Over 300 monthly customers. I regularly do interior work so I can check the results.

Everyone makes the odd mistake as I'm sure I do, but for me WFP gives a better ALLROUND finish. Frames are clean and glass is sparkling.

It's all in the technique.

[paul ette]

Can see a trad/wfp debate coming up
 

[Jonny 87]

Can see a trad/wfp debate coming up
 

I always seem to get roped into them. It's frustrating. Haha.

No more from me on trad v WFP.

Each to their own. Do what works for YOUR business.

[Chris - CBWC]

It's all in the technique.

True, but there seem to be many different techniques on here, which makes things confusing.

Example (and I'm only on my second or third cleans since switching from trad):

Some people say scrub the frames, scrub the glass, then rinse an inch or two from the top of the glass - when I do this, there are small white spots across the top of the glass where I hadn't rinsed.

Others says rinse from the top frame all the way down the glass - I tried this and got a dirty streak down the middle of the window!  So I get home and try this method on my own windows and they are spotless.

When I first started trad, I had some OJT for maybe 10 days and off I went.  Something similar for wfp must be recommended, especially as you can't see the results of the upstairs cleans.  I'm only earning with wfp what I was earning trad, and with a seemingly inferior finish on the glass (but the frames look great!) so it's very frustrating.