[stuart_clark]

I have been using ultimate master all week, since tuesday morning anyway, until this morning, when I used Chemspec one clean on the first job, then formula 90 the next two ! I have noticed the ammount of foam in the recovery tank after cleaning  , with the Ultimate madter there wasn't any

[Dave_Lee]

Stuart,
Some will believe, others won't, we know!
Dave.

[stuart_clark]

Dave

I dont give two hoots whether or not folk believe me or not to be honest, its just such a versitile  cleaning solution, with exellent defoaming proppeties, I first noticed how much foam was created in the recovery tank  when I changed machines from a ninja to a Scorpion, hence the increase in airflow

[Carpet Dawg]

if you don't care Stuart why post it?

I use formula 90 all the time and don't have any foam problems.

[Paul Moss]

Stuart have you tried it as a prespray at all or do you just use it in the tank.

[stuart_clark]

Nope never used it as a prespay, diddnt know you could
I will continue to use it anyway, I cleaned a three bedroom EOT yesterday it was a real minger but cleaned up a treat

[Russ Chadd]

Never got my head around in tank detergents? If you pre spray using a good product and agitate what difference does using a detergent which hits the carpet for a split second and then it gets sucked up make over hot water?

[wayne zabel]

Never got my head around in tank detergents? If you pre spray using a good product and agitate what difference does using a detergent which hits the carpet for a split second and then it gets sucked up make over hot water?

I also have never got my head round these type of products and also isn't contrary to the science/ph we are told about ie rinsing a carpet with a high ph product or can it not be used on wool?

[Mike Halliday]

If you can't get your head around the science of in-tank detergents then you need to sit back and think about it.....

The first question that is causing the problem to be be so enlarged that it cannot be circumvented by your head is how a detergent can be effective when it touches the carpet for just a fraction of time before being vacuumed away.......

 In answer..... I can get a cloth dampened in detergent and just press it against a stain, in that short moment  the cloth will come into contact with the stain, dissolve it and transfer it onto the cloth. This is the same principle of how an in-tank detergent works.

Secondly in reality the detergent will be in contact with the carpet for minutes not seconds, imagine cleaning a living room , you will clean the traffic lanes but they will not come clean so you will clean them again in this time the residual detergent from the first pass will have been working on the dirt making its removal easier with a second or third pass of the wand...... But!! If you rinse with just water you will not have this residual cleaning effect (as there is not a detergent working on the soil until you do the further passes of the wand)

[wayne zabel]

Mike with regards to the last paragraph.

I'm presuming that if you are using the in tank detergent method then you are not prespraying and aggertating.

Is this so?

Would it not be better to spray/agitate/dwell/extract or a you talking about using in tank detergents after spray/agitate.

Also is this in tank detergent not leaving wool carpets too high a ph

[SteveAllan]

F90 powdered not really for wool Wayne, Oneclean is ok though. I like you trained the prespray, microsplitters etc. I still use them but F90 certainly has its place, its a really good product, give it a go.

[Russ Chadd]

I just see it as a very Inefficiant way of cleaning, the whole point of pre spraying is to allow the cleaning agent extended contact time, mix that with agitation and this is where the cleaning stage is done...
Rinsing the cleaning agent along with the soils is exactly that, rinsing.
I see the rinsing as the last stage of the cleaning process when using HWE, just the same as rinsing shampoo from your hair.
I know some people will use F90 in the tank and spray with the wand or a lance, agitate and then rinse, so it's kind of used as a pre spray but then rinsed with the same cleaning solution.

Multiple cleaning passes with the wand just makes a wetter carpet

[Mike Halliday]

Only 30ish% of the carpet requires prespray is it 'efficient' to pre-spray & agitate  the full carpet? 

Woolsafe training does not think so, on their training course they teach to use pre-spray on the areas that require it not the full carpet.  Using an intank detergent is the most  efficient and effective method of cleaning a carpet, areas that are only lightly soiled do not need to be subjected to additional chemicals & unnecessary scrubbing to compensate for the lack of an effective rinse

[Russ Chadd]

I have always pre sprayed the entire carpet and agitated the entire carpet, whether that's with a brush, sebo duo or TM5, some areas of the carpet will require a little more attention such as the traffic areas.
Not saying your method is wrong Mike it's just the way I have been doing it for years, been using a pre spray called Spitfire from research products... It's Woolsafe and achieves great results, I may use a little fibre fabric rinse in the tank when extracting.

I also use Chemspecs liquid high heat as a rinse, it's a acidic cleaning detergent which encaps too

[CleanerCarpets]

Spitfire!! God that brings back memories! I do remember it being good when I used it with an interesting smell and very gloppy.  Haven't used Research for years but they had some good products

[stuart_clark]

I have been cleaning 25 years in july this year, I've always used in tank detergents as they are far superior to presprays, ok you can apply tlc to heavily soiled areas and left to dwell for five mins
twenty odd years ago everyone used in tank detergents, but the new bach of carpet cleaners the likes of mr chadd and quite a few others will be using coloid and microsplitter presprays with just a water rinse, but once rinsed,all you have in the carpet is water and if you have to go over heavily soiled areas more than once, then you will need to re spray again

I use Chemspec f70, f90 and one clean as well as ultimate master, bet I can clean an average theough room in halfvthe time of MS and coloids

[Darren O]

Always prespray and then use tm4 to agitate then rinse with f90 either with porty or truckmount there has been times when ive forgot to put the chemical gauge to the on position on the truckmount and start rinsing with plain water but you realise in no time as the results are poor compared to rinsing with a detergent especially on heavy soiled carpets.

[SteveAllan]

I'm confused with all this, I have trained with chaps who have been cleaning carpets 40+ years who advocate micro splitters and colloids and they even say about certain detergents leaving residues in the carpet that can quickly cause resoiling, so it's not just us new carpet cleaners using these products. Are you saying they are wrong with their vast experience. Like Darren I have found the likes of F90 to be great when used with a prespray which I tend to do on mingers.

[Russ Chadd]

Since becoming Woolsafe I have been using Spitfire which isn't a micro splitter, it's a regular detergent, seems to work very well on all carpets and upholstery with just a hot water rinse. now in the past I have rinsed upholstery with Prochems fab clean and I can definitely say that fabric felt almost sticky after it had been rinsed which leads me to believe that certain in tank detergents  could cause re soiling.
Research Products supply a two part upholstery cleaning system  called "fibre Soft", part one is a detergent pre spray and the other looks to me to be nothing more than acidic fabric softener! It does an ok job, but no better than Spitfire or any other pre spray I use.
Anyone else use this?

[stuart_clark]

Steve, I am not saying anyone is wrong in the way that they choose to clean carpets ie detergent in tank or prespray and extract! I know quite a few seasond carpet cleaners have adopted the micro splitter route and from time to time I've used them myself! But I still find I get a much more thorough clean using detergents whether they are made my Chemspec, Craftex or Prochem.
the likes of Formula 70 , 90 and  one clean powders were meant for use in the tank, albeit you could use them as pre sprays ! There is nothing stopping you and that is what Ultimate master was designed for
I just find the whole ethos of ms in the whole are a bit of a to jdo and find I get good results cleaning as I have always done so ie in tank chemical    

Stuart