[Suffolkcleaners]

Right guys... I have been trad for years now and in the process of possibly getting a backpack and new van to go part wfp... I am happy to stay traditional for the time being but just want to get a backpack for the odd house or hard to access window..

I am completely clueless with the wfp concept and my logic is if I start with the backpack it will get me used to purifying water etc and using these methods. Would someone be kind enough in very simplistic terms explain step by step what gear I would need just for the backpack idea? How much would I be looking at? How many windows would a 22 litre backpack clean for example? Is the whole process of purifying the water easy for someone who has no idea at all in the concept?

I'm thinking longterm I may well go wfp but just small steps first...

Also final question is would a astra van do the job in terms of fitting the backpack,poles etc? Bear in mind it's only a backpack and part wfp I'm planning... or maybe a connect,combo size van? Although if I could get away with a astra van then great..

Any advice for a trad cleaner who needs abit of knowledge would be fantastic... so a step by step guide and advice on van would be great. Thanking you in advance :-) :-)

[vistech]

it is easy but does seem more technical than it is al i have is a di vessel cant quite remember price round about a ton i think,and an ro filter  because i am in hard water area and i just fill up two 25ltr barrels and put them on my home made trolley.at the end of the day it is just filtering water and pumping it through a hose.when i first bought mine it was a bit daunting but once youve had a look at it youll see how simple it is.theres a backpack on ebay 16ltr but does say you can fit 20ltrs. £113 from beechroft jus type waterfed pole backpack. and you can also get complete fiter systems not sure how much as i used my old fiters(not expensive though)speak to a supplier most seem very helpful and will sort you out plus plenty of advise from this forum you cant go wrong hope thats helpful cheers,martin

[Suffolkcleaners]

Are you wfp with a trolley then martin? As I'm only planning on starting with a backpack.. How many windows does a 16-20 litre backpack clean? Roughly? Then like you said maybe have an additional couple of 25 litre containers... It's just the purifying that daunts me as I hear of so many (from customers)that leave streaks and watermarks etc...

Any advice on di vessel? What make of pole? Etc etc  Also would a astra van fit this in? :-)

[vistech]

i couldnt really say time wise on 16ltr i take two 25ltr barrels and i do two to three factorys not much info as you dont know what size but 50-75 ltr is plenty a day for me just nip home if need more and fill up any excuse for a brew.plus if you came to realise you need need more water for day just buy a few more barrels and stick them in car.regarding filters a mate of mine just goes straight from outside tap through di vessel(the blue things if youve seen them)then another pice of hose other side into barrels but like i say you can buy a compact complete unit where it will just be a matter of attaching hose form tap to one end and pure water coming out other.i know i might make it sound easy but is because i am one of the least technically minded people going.cheers,martin

[Suffolkcleaners]

Thanks martin... so you do wfp all day long? No traditional work? What is the make of backpack you use? Also what di vessel do I get? Any advice on pole also? Which pole? :-)

Is that it? Backpack,di vessel,pole and containers? what about rds unit etc?

[dazmond]

id say forget it mate.

either all or nothing.


messing about with barrels and filling up backpacks etc will be time consuming.you d be quicker carrying on 100% trad IMO.

if you want to start small then a 250L tank and 100m of microbore would do you for upper windows only.i had the idea that id just do a bit of wfp and trad the rest but you soon realise that its easier(and quicker)to wfp nearly all work.top and bottom windows.

i very rarely get complaints about cleaning wfp.it does an amazing job.much better than mop and squeegee 95% of the time(frames etc).

in fact i would just go with this


500L TANK and frame £400

pumpbox and battery £400

SLX 25 and brushes  £300

claber reel and 100m microbore £100

various hoses and connectors,etc £100

DI ONLY(if water is below 100tds)and resin £200

not sure about an RO as ive never used one.

so for around £1500 you could be up and running with a good wfp system.min payload for a tank of this size would be 900kg but you could get a smaller tank to be within the payload of your van(max 300L in an astravan IMO).

once you start wfp you ll soon want to use it for most work as its such a handy cleaning tool!!

[vistech]

i dont use backpack i use a trolley i made dazmonds right if youve got the work i used to have a 300ltr ionis in van which was great but as i need car for when i see kids its handy just to chucktrolley in boot its not a problem filling up with barrels but i probably dont have as much work as dazmond to warrant a bigger set up now but im happy with it and it does the job but the backpack ive seen is on ebay £113 cheers,martin

[Suffolkcleaners]

id say forget it mate.

either all or nothing.


messing about with barrels and filling up backpacks etc will be time consuming.you d be quicker carrying on 100% trad IMO.

if you want to start small then a 250L tank and 100m of microbore would do you for upper windows only.i had the idea that id just do a bit of wfp and trad the rest but you soon realise that its easier(and quicker)to wfp nearly all work.top and bottom windows.

i very rarely get complaints about cleaning wfp.it does an amazing job.much better than mop and squeegee 95% of the time(frames etc).

in fact i would just go with this


500L TANK and frame £400

pumpbox and battery £400

SLX 25 and brushes  £300

claber reel and 100m microbore £100

various hoses and connectors,etc £100

DI ONLY(if water is below 100tds)and resin £200

not sure about an RO as ive never used one.

so for around £1500 you could be up and running with a good wfp system.min payload for a tank of this size would be 900kg but you could get a smaller tank to be within the payload of your van(max 300L in an astravan IMO).

once you start wfp you ll soon want to use it for most work as its such a handy cleaning tool!!

Bumped into a very friendly wfp window cleaner today and he swears by the pure freedom trolley etc... he was at a house next to me and did it in half the time plus 3 storey windows... I had a look and they looked good.. so I'm very tempted to get a freedom trolley to start with(I will still do some trad)and take it from there.. what are your thoughts on that? Plus you could get the freedom gear in a car or small van.....

[Don Kee]

X line trolleys are pretty good as well.

1st get a tds metre - if your tap water is less than 80 it'll mean you could probably do without an R.O

If its above 80 imo you want an R.O...

For now i'd get a 450gpd R.O (i suggest collins water products), get a cheap 1000litrr ibc in the back garden/garage and purify your water into that (you're then storing it incase you need more)

For now i'd probably get a connector you can fit on ibc's (ebay - search ibc connectors) and use gravity to fill your barrels for your trolley/backpack
At some point when you go more wfp you'll want a submersable pump and hose to transfer your water from ibc to tank in van

You'll want a D.I vessel regardless off r.o or not and resin (look forvsecond hand D.I's if you can, resin - tulison mb115 from daqua is my recommendation)

R.O's take around 95% of the solids out of the water, the D.I does the rest.
The higher your tds (total dissolved solids) the more you'll spank through resin

Pole - go for a clx27 if only for odd jobs, you can up grade when you go more wfp

Edit : get a pressure gauge for your outdoor tap as well, it'll tell you whether you need a pump to boost your water pressure. The higher the pressure the more efficiently your r.o works (faster pure production and lower tds)

[Richard60]

for lasr 5yrs iv used backpack many barrels .lot of lifting .but a lot faster than i was on ladders ..and im no slow coach on the ladders.its suits my round backpack very well

[CLEANCARE WC]

Hi SUFFOLK you will definately need an R.O. as our water in Ipswich is 350-400ppm far to high for DI only.

[Suffolkcleaners]

Cleancare.. would the ro unit that comes as a package with the pure freedom be good enough? Or would it be better to just buy the freedom trolley and a separate ro unit? I just thought if I bought the package it would be easier..

From what I've heard they are very friendly at pure freedom and as a newbie with wfp I could do with all the help I can get..

[ecole]

dont no where in suffolk you are m8 but most people i have spoke to have hard water of 320 upwards ,mine is 360 odd in felixstowe, so would say an ro is a must if you dont want to spend a fortune on resin.
also i would get a quote of someone (try k systems he is near stowmarket)to supply and fit a 250 tank and frame, you might find its not that bigger outlay,and it will save you doing it in 6 months.
trouble with barrels and backpack you might try to scrimp on water leaving spots and give yourself headaches when switching over

regards

edd

[CLEANCARE WC]

Cleancare.. would the ro unit that comes as a package with the pure freedom be good enough? Or would it be better to just buy the freedom trolley and a separate ro unit? I just thought if I bought the package it would be easier..

From what I've heard they are very friendly at pure freedom and as a newbie with wfp I could do with all the help I can get..

yes i expect it will be ok, not too much to worry about with an R.O. system. BUT if the package comes with a pole your probably best off just buying the trolly if thats what your heart is set on (although when you eventually go van mount you will wish you had done it from day 1)

There is only one place imo to buy a pole from and i will give you one guess it gets mentioned a fair bit on here  

[Mike #1]

i couldnt really say time wise on 16ltr i take two 25ltr barrels and i do two to three factorys not much info as you dont know what size but 50-75 ltr is plenty a day for me just nip home if need more and fill up any excuse for a brew.plus if you came to realise you need need more water for day just buy a few more barrels and stick them in car.regarding filters a mate of mine just goes straight from outside tap through di vessel(the blue things if youve seen them)then another pice of hose other side into barrels but like i say you can buy a compact complete unit where it will just be a matter of attaching hose form tap to one end and pure water coming out other.i know i might make it sound easy but is because i am one of the least technically minded people going.cheers,martin

50-75 litres a day that would do about 6 houses , Surely you cant be doing all the frames and doors if you are doing a full day on 75 litres . Mike

[Mike #1]

If you are defo getting a van then put tank in the back it is the easiest way to go , If you look on www.daqua.co.uk  or even give them a ring they will tell you what you need very helpful guys .

You can get a 350 ltr flat tank system with everything thing you need with a Gardiners CLX22 then add in an 300gpd RO and total cost is £771.00 about £135.00 cheaper than a PF trolley system .

You put everything in the back of van and no lifting and chewing on , If a van is not within your budget at the moment i would hang on and until it is as long term it will be more beneficial to you and your business .

I used a PF trolley for over 4yrs and i would never go back from a van mount . Mike

[Suffolkcleaners]

Thanks for advice guys :-)

The flat pack system is for soft water areas m & m. Where I live is a very hard water area.

Also with the trolley like the idea of being able to take it wherever,whereas I'm assuming you can't always do that with a van mount?

I think for me(for the timebeing)cheap(ish)van that still looks professional and trolly system and then in future if things take off abit more then possibly a new van with van mount. I think for me this is possibly the way as I don't want a van mount if I'm just getting a cheap van :-)

[Mike #1]

You add a 300gpd RO to a soft water system and you have all the kit for a hard water area .

With 100 mtrs of hose you can go more places than a trolley and don't have to keep going back to van to change containers every 30mins , It's your money and your back at the end off the day you will spend hundreds more not going van mount  from the outset .

And believe me you will look more of a pro going van mount , I speak from experience

[Suffolkcleaners]

Ok thanks m & m... can you explain how van mounts work? What is the method for re-filling it up with pure water etc? What if you couldn't park near the job you had to do? this is where I thought a trolley would come in handy if that happened? Excuse me but I'm clueless... do the van set ups come with everything? So the £771 would pretty much get me started? :-)

[robertphil]

did u look at that Kangoo?