[John Klucznik]

This is also why you get far less wicking with LM. But to address your point its not the level of soil removed that causes a rapid re soiling but the type of residue left after the cleaning. If you use an alkaline rinse with your extraction you WILL be leaving behind surfactants that are sticky and this will resoil quickly. A clear water rinse is much better. The encapsulation polymer dries to a hard shell ( think M&M) and blocks off the surfactants from being sticky so it resoils at a normal rate.



I almost stopped reading after the first sentence, I thought I'd been transported back to the 70s, do we still peddle that nonsense about re soiling chemicals? It laughable that a silly point like that is needed to back up Encap cleaning.

I use a fresh water rinse, so I guess that argument does,nt count for me,  or does a fresh water rinsed carpet also  resoil  quicker that Encap.

I don't believe any cleaning photo I see unless I did it myself its so easy to fake the 'clean effect' .  the foam alone gives an immediate visual appearance of clean.

On those photos did he tell the customer that the dirt was still there just not visible so they will need to vac it up over the subsequent weeks?  Encap is good in the right situation....... but that is not the right situation

[/quote]

Where do I start. You dont need to be in the 70`s to resoil you just have to have some understanding of how the chemistrys dry or dont dry out. Whether or not you personally believe a photo has nothing to do with its validity. That's just your opinion which your entitled to even if your wrong.
To say the pics are fake is offensive. Foam dissipates after seconds. You knew that right? You could not have cleaned the entire room with two separate and different steps and still had foam.
The other fact you missed was the amount of soil on multiple pads that was pulled from the carpet. So, nothing to tell the customer. Throw the soiled pads in the washer and you have filthy water.
 Dry down most any standard alkaline rinse and tell me what you see. Mix it to diluted recommendations and pour it down a window, let dry and see if its can be sticky. Thats why I clear water rinse but many companies don't.

You can have all sorts of soil sifted into the bottom of the carpet. That is not what causes rapid resoling.  The soil has to stick to something or it would all vac out.
So you have the lack of removing the binder or an added  residue or both. You can have lots of soil in the bottom that does not effect the face fibers. Hoover did a study years ago and sifted 80 pounds of soil in a room of carpet that you could not see.

Again, I own and offer both so Im just telling what I have seen.  The fact is, the carpets looked great after the cleaning and to assume that they will re soil because you think they will is just an opinion, that doesn't make it a fact. If encap didn't get results then it would be dying not growing.

[Mike Roper]

An important point has been made which is whatever product you are using as the final process, put some at ready to use dilution into a saucer then leave to dry / evaporate. What is left? Dry powder/ crystals or  a sticky  residue? That s what you leave in the.carpet, simple as that!
Mike

[Simon Gerrard]

Leave the recovery tank of your machine full overnight and see what it smells like in the morning. It stinks, like a sewer, that's what encap leaves behind on domestic carpets, which is why I would only use it when I had to, especially when the means to get the same carpet super clean is sitting outside.


Simon

[John Kelly]

No Simon, your tank smells like a sewer because the heat, crap and bacteria you have sucked out of the carpet has caused a soup which has multiplied the bacteria where it has actually become harmfull.
Bacteria needs moisture to live and re-produce. Once the carpets are dry nothing else is going on no matter what system was used.
The carpets which do smell are ones which have been over wet or the atmospheric conditions have not allowed any drying to take place. In these instances mould, mildews and bacteria flourish and it is this that gives off the musty, uriney type odour. This only happens when carpets have been wet extracted.

[neil 47]

I did a quick experiment this am .

One back door mat , carpet cut off .

Sprayed with shockwave and bonneted
Then half hwe after

Finally completely hwe

This was just a 5 min experiment .

I though the bonneted pic looked good until I hwe it

[John Kelly]

Shockwave is a pre-spray designed to be extracted not a bonnet chemical so has worked exactly as prescribed.

[neil 47]

I did this just to show how spreading muck can make it look ok to the untrained eye, I shouldnt of told you I used shockwave it really doesn't matter what you use the results are the same its still in the carpet no matter what form its in .

[*Hector*]

not if you do it properly Neil.. 

 

[peter maybury]

I think that the thing here is that if you have nothing to compare it to then fine your system looks good. One system does not suit all situations. Many of us use a lot of different systems to enable us to give our customers the best results that we can. If you only use one system then you have a slightly skewed view as to what is the best. I do a lot of encapping but I do have the knowledge and experience to understand when it is the best system for the job. I am constantly evaluating what works and very often am using one system followed by another. The argument that one overall system is better than another shows nothing but ignorance and a lack of understanding. I have for 20 years tried to get good results with encapping and now get some incredible results, in the right situation of soil and type of carpet. To sell that to all of my customers would not be something that I could do as I know that it is not.
Peter

[stuart_clark]

Neil
would you bonnet clean after using Prochem Powerburst ?  As shockwave and b́o blast are roughly the same , an enzyme prespray that would leaves a huge ammount of residue in a carpet if not rinsed out thoroughly ! Dont get me wrong I am a real lover of encap and have a commercial tomorow morning cleaning 1500 sq mts , but I will be using Releasit DS with a Punch Prespray first
the right chemicals for the job

stuart

[neil 47]

Stuart

When I encap I use dynamall and find it great ,
When I'm clean carpets of a lady who has a massive dog that leaves it's oils on the carpet I use shockwave filled by a acid rinse
When I bonnet I use bonnet buff
When I clean windows I use fairy and a unger squeegee .

I know what's right and what's wrong .
The point is the pic after bonnet ing looks great ,

[stuart_clark]

Neil

I think you have missed my point mate, a carpet full of residue, even if it looks great after you have finished cleaning it, wont look great for long

stuart

[neil 47]

Neil

I think you have missed my point mate, a carpet full of residue, even if it looks great after you have finished cleaning it, wont look great for long

stuart

Really !   

I know that just showing you what you can pass off as clean .

and it not staying clean long that brings up another question . Who Cares 

when i first started I used Blitz with no acid rinse and i had loads of work more regular as they were getting dirtier quicker so were calling me back more.

then i switched to MS and work dropped go figure 

[stuart_clark]

Neil

I prefere to be known as an Ethicle  carpet cleaner and not somone who boasts about leaving carpets with tons of residue in them after at ive just cleaned  them to get more work !
I think you are posting on the rong board mate

[John Klucznik]

Technically encap does leave a residue but one with a positive benefit.

As Surround's T2H Polymer's residual chemistry dries, the suspended and emulsified soils along with the detergent molecules become locked inside of our unique polymeric structure. Think of the shell on an 'M&M'. The action of the chemistry plus the scrubbing of the pad and or bonnet breaks the soils in sometimes-smaller particles and separates the soils or foreign substances from the fiber giving you the instant clean look while suspending them in our encapsulating polymer. Once the detergent along with the soils are locked in our polymeric structure the detergent molecules “quit” cleaning, preventing rapid resoiling.

The polymeric structure is a relatively brittle film that will not allow the residual soils to reattach to the fiber surface due to their hardness and low surface tension. This is what also eliminates wicking in most situations. We have chosen to use a more durable hard film. It will not instantly sheer or break off like other formulas. This more durable hard polymer also reduces or eliminates any chance of air borne particulate issues and provides longer protection from particulate soil. All while allowing residual soils and the polymeric encapsulant to be removed by routine vacuuming.
Using absorbent bonnets is still critical for a good clean. I don't believe the encap alone ( like some competitors) is enough.





Leave the recovery tank of your machine full overnight and see what it smells like in the morning. It stinks, like a sewer, that's what encap leaves behind on domestic carpets, which is why I would only use it when I had to, especially when the means to get the same carpet super clean is sitting outside.


This is very unlikely to happen with LM and this is why. You be the judge. LM with encap if done properly will dry depending on humidity, air flow and air temp in twenty minutes to about and hour and 1/2. A clear water sink overflow can turn from clear to grey water in about 2 hours on carpet  and get worse as the mold spores and bacterias not have needed water to grow. So the longer a carpet sites wet after an extraction job the greater the potential for bacterial growth. Now that does not mean it has to be a problem but it does present a greater potential for one.
You tank smells horrible due to lack of sunlight, stagnate air and the moisture that allows things to grow. When things grow they emit waste and that is the pathogen and the odor source.

[stuart_clark]

We encapped a commercial low profile tight loop carpet this morning, the carpet wasn't that bad but was very dusty so I needed to vacume it twice, I used Releasit DS2 with a buff pad ! Got a cracking result and we started at 6 am and finished at 10.45 1500 sq mts carpet was bone dry by 11.45 then we post vacumed the carpet, customer was very pleased and so was I when he gave me the cheque! Lol

[neil 47]

Stuart 

Im not saying i do that ,only explaining that you can use anything to make a carpet look better . 

Stuart

When I encap I use dynamall and find it great ,
When I'm clean carpets of a lady who has a massive dog that leaves it's oils on the carpet I use shockwave filled by a acid rinse
When I bonnet I use bonnet buff
When I clean windows I use fairy and a unger squeegee .

I know what's right and what's wrong .
The point is the pic after bonnet ing looks great ,

 
You be as Ethicle as you want .

I it ethicle to use child labour to make adidas football nike trainers , that you buy or your battery chicken that u scoff on sunday

what makes you so sure you are Ethicle are you chairman of the Ethicle society 

[mark_roberts]

Stuart

Is that your normal procedure to wait and post vac?

Whats a buff pad?  White floor pad?

Never heard that term before.

Thanks
Mark

[stuart_clark]

Mark

never heard of post vac ? Come and watch me do it in Dunamanagh in two weeks time mate
post vac Mark is merely vacuming after you have encaped, it was done as part of the job, the carpets only take a very short time to dry and I thought I would get better results with sebos
a buff pad is the one between white and brown although I am waiting to get some fibre plus pads when
CSUK  get some more stock in

stuart

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I'm guessing a buff pad is a beige scotch brite pad??

Shaun