[BSF]

Hi yer

Documentation should be in the form of minutes to the meeting ie; what was said, reasons for her failure to complete probation period (standards etc) and then the outcome.

I know its illegal but I use a dictation machine so you dont have to write everything down during the meeting.  Its not illegal if you inform the employee you are taping the meeting and explain its to the benifit of both paties to ensure there is no mis-understandings.

Issue a letter to her the next day by post and explain that she has 5 working days to appeal against your decision to let her go.  Always keep minutes of diciplinary meetings, there is less chance of anything coming back to bite you in the ar*e

Regards

Graham

Graham,

Your filling Lisa full of nonsense, appeal , the member of staff has worked for less than one month, even if they had worked for Lisa for nine months, all she would need to do is draft a simple letter explaining she/he isnt suitable for employment, in this case no notice is required, end of story.

Basically Lisa you can employ who you want, but give the correct notice.

Regards

Paul

OOOPS!

Here you go Graham lets get this one back to the top....

For some one who has a 10k weekly wage bill you havent got a clue

remember NO NOTICE for 1 month or less do you agree?
Does Lisa really need a witness? no she doesnt!
Appeal?  no Graham no appeal.

And b4 anyone trys to have ago at me for posting this please dont, its not because I think i'm always right, or my male ego, cause i'm/its not, Graham has tried and failed to discredit me on the sick pay post, i'm just doing the same.

Regards

Paul

[BSF]

Hi yer

Documentation should be in the form of minutes to the meeting ie; what was said, reasons for her failure to complete probation period (standards etc) and then the outcome.

I know its illegal but I use a dictation machine so you dont have to write everything down during the meeting.  Its not illegal if you inform the employee you are taping the meeting and explain its to the benifit of both paties to ensure there is no mis-understandings.

Issue a letter to her the next day by post and explain that she has 5 working days to appeal against your decision to let her go.  Always keep minutes of diciplinary meetings, there is less chance of anything coming back to bite you in the ar*e

Regards

Graham

Graham,

Your filling Lisa full of nonsense, appeal , the member of staff has worked for less than one month, even if they had worked for Lisa for nine months, all she would need to do is draft a simple letter explaining she/he isnt suitable for employment, in this case no notice is required, end of story.

Basically Lisa you can employ who you want, but give the correct notice.

Regards

Paul

OOOPS!

Here you go Graham lets get this one back to the top....

For some one who has a 10k weekly wage bill you havent got a clue

remember NO NOTICE for 1 month or less do you agree?
Does Lisa really need a witness? no she doesnt!
Appeal?  no Graham no appeal.

And b4 anyone trys to have ago at me for posting this please dont, its not because I think i'm always right, or my male ego, cause i'm/its not, Graham has tried and failed to discredit me on the sick pay post, i'm just doing the same.

Regards

Paul

[BSF]

Sorry Graham 10k per wk was way under your wage bill, its about £22,000 isnt it

Do you record all your staff disciplinary interviews?

[Paul Coleman]

Hi, well i guess her hard work was all a put on because she knew we were assessing her last week.
Shes back to old habits and customers do not trust her, and they do not like her, and they are not sure she is up to the job and they dont think her standards are good enough.

I'm very lucky to have customers, who are also friends - at the moment.

Her feedback from the customers isn't looking good. She is now fired! well when i call a meeting on Monday she is so FIRED!! 

Even though I'm a self employed window cleaner, I've followed this thread with some interest as I've been on both sides of this equation in the past.  So how did it go on Monday?
I haven't done cleaning in peoples homes but I have cleaned smallish offices as a keyholder usually as a P.A.Y.E. employee.  I have done various offices over the years mostly on PAYE to supplement my window cleaning income.  I've never lost a job yet due to anything I did or didn't do (or at least not as far as I know) but I have lost jobs when the customer has closed down, gone elsewhere for their cleaning or just decided to do it themselves.  I have found that, as I have done this work out of hours, a communication book is essential.  Interestingly, the communication book seems to be used several times in the first two or three weeks and then very little thereafter.  It can take a little while to discover what a customer's pet hates are.  I find that it is often necessary to prioritise tasks which sometimes means leaving the less noticeable stuff to be done less frequently.  This can happen if the employer is trying to remain competitive and wants to keep the time taken (and therefore the quote) down.  If one of these less noticeable items is something that happens to bug a customer, then it will be noted by them in the book.  If that happens, the task gets upgraded onto my higher priority list (which I keep in my head).  On the rare occasions that I have been given a written job spec, I have sometimes found that to do all the tasks listed at the frequency required is just unrealistic and feel that it is often listed that way to impress the customer.  Of course it could be that I am exceptionally slow but I have seen others work and I reckon I'm about average speedwise.
Anyway, as I asked at the beginning, how did it go on Monday?

[Jan K]

I learned a hard lesson way back at the beginning when I employed someone throu the jobcentre. She was as nice as pise, had good references from previous cleaning jobs and I thought I was doing the right thing. She lasted 3 weeks, was completely useless, took a day off with all sorts of excuses every week and lost me 2 clients.

I made a vow never to take on anyone who I didn't know, or was recommended to me. AND I also make sure that the people I employ actually love cleaning. To them they are earning a few bob from doing somwething they enjoy.

I have 4 regular girls and 2 that step in and they have all been with me at least 6 months up to 2 years. I do have the odd moment with the youngest who is 18, and sometimes she 'forgets' to clean behind a door or under a table, but apart from that she is a good cleaner.

I also have one who occassionally lets me down at the last minute, but again she is an excellent cleaner and fast too.

I make sure I get to know them personally, and think it is as important to be their 'friend' as well as their boss. If you know as much about their personal life (because you have developed a good personal relationship) as you do their working life you will know if they are pulling a fast one.

Some people say don't employ friends or relations etc, but it has worked for me and is still working

[lisa123]

Hi all
thanks for the input.
We had to re-do a clients bathroom as it wasnt up to standards, and felt that we had enough of this shoddy work.
All geared up at the meeting to say what had happened, and well out the words came.
"I have to tell you that i'm 3 months preggo"
bit of a shock! anyway, still don't think her work is up to standard. She wants to leave in August, so we could just see if she improves, i think the excuses might start rolling out, "cant lift the hoover etc"
Next meeting will be interesting.

[BSF]

Hi Lisa,

It doesnt matter if the employee is pregnant, if you want rid you can without any notice, if her period of work go's over the 1 month and less than a year you are required by law to give her 1 weeks notice.

Regards

BSF

[lisa123]

If we give her a weeks notice, how do we work out hol pay that is owed? and what happens if she doesn't want to work her final week?, or does a really bad job, or just doesn't turn up??
she started with us on 20th march, so thats four weeks, or does it go by calender month?

[BSF]

Its Calendar month Lisa, if it was after the month and she didn’t work the 1 weeks notice you wouldn’t pay her for it, holiday pay has to be paid, for example if she works 20hrs per wk, that’s 80hrs minimum entitlement per year, 80 divided by 52 wks is 1.54 hrs entitlement per wk, so 4 wks worked, you owe her 6.16 hrs multiplied by her hourly rate, if it was £5.50 it would be £33.88 pay her the amount in her final pay and forward the p45, just adjust the working out if you need to work out a daily holiday pay rate ie: 80hrs divided by 365 x number of days employed,

I think I’m right, I’m sure someone will tell me if I’m not, someone else does this for me. 

The figure’s ive quoted are only if you pay 4wks including bank holidays as I do.

Regards

BSF 

[lisa123]

Hi Thanks for your advise, i really appreciate it.
I have until the 19th then to ask her to leave. Pay her when we next have a pay day and include any acruued holiday entitlement. I'll then also include a P45. I didnt sent off her P45 when she gave it to me, but as she isn't entitled to PAYE i assumed it didnt need to be sent.
4 weeks inc bank hol is what she is contracted.
So she has worked for 4 weeks to date and has worked 4.25 hours week 1
4.75 hours week 2
5.50 hours week 3
4.50 hours week 4
how do i work that out?

[BSF]

When I take someone on I send a letter explaining basic terms and conditions of employment, I state what the trial period is, hourly rate, hours/days of work, contracted weekly hours, holiday entitlement, overtime rate... etc etc, what hours did you agree with the employee?

[lisa123]

no minimum hours and no maximum hours, its a zero hour contract, does this make any difference? It does state that holiday entitlement is to be paid, just not sure how to work it out on the above weekly hrs worked. 

[BSF]

Add the total hrs worked, then divide by number of weeks to get the average weekly hours, then multiply by the hourly rate.

[lisa123]

Thanks BSF
I think all the easter eggs have gone to my brain 
Thanks for all your help, its most appreciated.

[handyali]

just a thought - if she is 3 months pregnant is she ok to work with chemicals and as you say lisa should she be lifting hoovers regularly ? as i say just a thought- not a problem we've encountered yet  these things may sound like excuses from her but watch your health and safety stuff

[lisa123]

i was worried about her lifting hoovers especially upstairs, some of these hoovers are very heavy and bulky, might have to put her onto other duties, not sure what though.
She should be ok with chemicals as long as the areas are well ventilated, and she uses gloves and dust mask when required.

[BSF]

Don’t forget to work out her entitlement though, then go ahead and do the relevant calculations, this post wasn’t very clear:

Add the total hrs worked, then divide by number of weeks to get the average weekly hours, then multiply by the hourly rate.

Normally zero hour contracts are worked out on the previous 12 wks worked.

[so_fresh_so_clean]

Fire Her! But the way I would do it that I will call her up and set up a meeting with her and discuss the issue with her for no more than 10-15 min.

[lisa123]

Hi all

SHES GONE!
she sensed we wanted her out, and she wanted to leave anyway! so.....

sacked her a couple weeks ago, and although we are extremely busy, at least we know we are doing the jobs properly now.
The thing is, we are getting more and more enquiries and so will have to find a new member of staff soon, here we go again......... 

[mark dew]

Hi all

SHES GONE!
she sensed we wanted her out, and she wanted to leave anyway! so.....

Congratulations. Good job she was a bit sensitive. I had her down as managing director within 3 months....