[Fin Clearview]

Anyone know what this is? Looks like flueless but I'm clueless

[robert mitchell]

Its a diesel powered heater so rather than a flue it will have an exhaust that exits under the vehicle , it will be a very well engineered system but a little too pricey once you add the vat in my opinion.

[Scrimble]

not a problem when your vat registered, nice looking set up but still dont see the point when a £200 gas heater does the job better

[advanced]

I agree my gas  heater is 2 years old and still works great, its a 8 litre anemy from china

[Spruce]

Just a couple of interesting facts.

The Anemy gas heater is a 16kw unit.

The once popular single operator Webasto Thermo Top C diesel heater is a 5kw unit.

The more popular Webasto S 90 diesel heater is a 9kw unit.

[Oliver @ GrippaTank]

Hi Fin,

 The HydroHeat uses a 9kw diesel boiler which is integrated into your vehicle fuel tank. Robert is quite correct - the exhaust and airline are fitted through the vehicle floor - this no unsightly flues or cutouts in the roof of the vehicle.

The system comes with automatic frost protection as standard, so even with the heater switched off, if it reads 2c it will automatically kick into life and circulate hot water for 10 minutes through the circuit, including your pumps and hose reels and then back into the tank. This obviously then gives greater protection to your system overnight.

The temperate is fully adjustable with a range right upto 60c if required.

Spruce is quite correct about the various makes and models out on the market, our kit is a 9kw diesel powered boiler which uses approx 1.14 litre an hour on maximum temp.

[Spruce]

Hi Fin,

 The HydroHeat uses a 9kw diesel boiler which is integrated into your vehicle fuel tank. Robert is quite correct - the exhaust and airline are fitted through the vehicle floor - this no unsightly flues or cutouts in the roof of the vehicle.

The system comes with automatic frost protection as standard, so even with the heater switched off, if it reads 2c it will automatically kick into life and circulate hot water for 10 minutes through the circuit, including your pumps and hose reels and then back into the tank. This obviously then gives greater protection to your system overnight.

The temperate is fully adjustable with a range right upto 60c if required.

Spruce is quite correct about the various makes and models out on the market, our kit is a 9kw diesel powered boiler which uses approx 1.14 litre an hour on maximum temp.

Thanks for adding some information here. We don't get much feedback from the suppliers when it comes to diesel heaters.

I don't know how your system works, but I imagine it will be the same principle as the others. The diesel heater will heat a primary 'enclosed' water circuit containing a heat exchanger. Heated water flowing in one direction through the heat exchanger/s transfers heat to a secondary pumped line in the opposite direction from the tank which will be exit through the hose reel and up to the brush head as warm/hot water.

My question is how you derive at a 10 minute solution as an anti frost protection. Is it purely the system itself that is selected to be warmed up and protected with a little excess heat being pushed through the hose reel(?) or diverted directly back to the tank? A 10 minute start up wouldn’t do anything to raise the temperature of the water in the tank.

How many times will the system switch on and off on a cold night with freezing temperatures. Numerous short bursts of minimal heat is what Webasto advise causes the glowplug to coke up and is responsible for expensive regular servicing costs (£450.00 a time annually is a figure thrown around.)

Another issue users experience is that the systems are extremely power hungry so flat batteries are a major source of complaint as most don’t travel far or long enough to recharge their batteries.

How does your system deal with excess heat during a day’s work?  If the operator stops work to talk to a customer for example or move on to the next property, the furnace will continue to heat its primary water circuit. Once the temperature reaches 74 degrees C it kicks into half heat mode. Once the temperature reaches 77 degrees C it starts its shutdown mode. After this it has to restart with more current from the battery needed. Ideally this excess heat needs to be diverted back to the tank to keep the furnace working. This helps reduce carbon build up.
In an experiment I did with my 5kw Thermo Top over Christmas I found that my heater could just manage to heat my water from 9 degrees to 35 degrees continous running. So the 9kw will produce more heat than an operator will use and hence excess heat will have to be considered, specially if only one operator is using the system.


I am a user operator, I split my van running costs by percentage into a private and business use which includes the diesel I put into the van. By drawing diesel from the vans tank, I would have no way of knowing how much diesel is being used by the van and how much is being used by the heater. If the system is running for 4 hours a day then I must assume that it’s cost me around 4 liters of fuel a day or about 80+ liters a month. The running costs of the system in diesel a month will cost me more than what the van uses, (+- 70 liters of diesel every 6 weeks).

In my opinion, anybody in my situation would require a second tank to be fitted  for the sole use of the diesel heater.

From what I see, a cheap gas heater is the answer for guys like me. Its simple, easy to setup and run. Yes, a proper vent through the roof is a must IMHO, but if something goes wrong with the heater, buy another. They are on Ebay at the moment for £79.99.

[Oliver @ GrippaTank]

Hi Spruce. No problem at all - feedback is always important from both a customer and supplier point of view.

The diesel heater does indeed heat a coolant circuit which contains one or more heat exchangers. As you mentioned, The heated coolant travels in one direction through the heat exchanger/s and transfers heat to the cold feeds coming from the wfp delivery pumps which then exis out of the hose reel and up to the brush head as warm/hot water.

My question is how you derive at a 10 minute solution as an anti frost protection. Is it purely the system itself that is selected to be warmed up and protected with a little excess heat being pushed through the hose reel(?) or diverted directly back to the tank? A 10 minute start up wouldn’t do anything to raise the temperature of the water in the tank.

The frost circulation will run for 10 minutes each time it reads 2c - running warm water through the pump and reels and back into the tank. The frost protection is certainly not designed to heat the water to a high temperature, rather purely to keep the temperature higher than 2c to stop the freezing. Normally this would result in water circulating at about 15c. The system will kick into live once again when it reads 2c again so on a particular freezing night it would obviously kick into life every hour. Webasto do indeed advise that multiple 'half-runs' would cause coke up, however as part of the frost stat protection software the burner is protected by ensuring it get upto the designated temperature in order to burn any excess carbon. Good insulation of the system is required as with any heating to ensure you are not repeatly heating unnessarily.

Glow plug replacement is about 185 + vat plus labour, which usually is about one hour maximum as it's a very simple job.

Successful power control was a huge feature requirement of all our systems (cold/or hot) - if the kit is fitted - why should you have to be worrying about power all the time? We regularly find many users of competitors systems struggling with power issues and banging their heads against a brick wall. In fact we have carried out a number of upgrades to competitor machines on behalf of customers in order to fix the issue. The main issue is: most of the power packs and split relays out on the market today are only trickle charge - thus if you only drive locally in a day, they just do not get charged. All of our systems feature a float system, which include automatic rapid or trickle charge depending on what is required, this your system is looked after even if your work is local.

Our system looks after the user by automatically shutting the system down if the on board software reads that the wfp delivery pump has been disconnected for a prolonged period. Prior to this excess heat is diverted back into the tank to prevent carbon build up.

Carbon build up has also been addressed by the new boilers which run much more efficiently and heat the water very rapidly.

The diesel used by the system can be seen on the flo meter provided. Many of our customers always opt for vehicle integration as it prevents the staff from having to worry about multiple tanks to fill up etc, it also prevents miss fueling of the system.

However if a customer was in a similar situation to you, requested an aux fuel tank we would certianly provide that option.

Our systems are simple and easy for the customer to use - with two years warranty as standard on the boilers as well.

[Scrimble]

sounds impressive if i was in the market for a diesel heated system I would definatley look at a grippa hydro heat

[Spruce]

Hi Spruce. No problem at all - feedback is always important from both a customer and supplier point of view.

The diesel heater does indeed heat a coolant circuit which contains one or more heat exchangers. As you mentioned, The heated coolant travels in one direction through the heat exchanger/s and transfers heat to the cold feeds coming from the wfp delivery pumps which then exis out of the hose reel and up to the brush head as warm/hot water.

My question is how you derive at a 10 minute solution as an anti frost protection. Is it purely the system itself that is selected to be warmed up and protected with a little excess heat being pushed through the hose reel(?) or diverted directly back to the tank? A 10 minute start up wouldn’t do anything to raise the temperature of the water in the tank.

The frost circulation will run for 10 minutes each time it reads 2c - running warm water through the pump and reels and back into the tank. The frost protection is certainly not designed to heat the water to a high temperature, rather purely to keep the temperature higher than 2c to stop the freezing. Normally this would result in water circulating at about 15c. The system will kick into live once again when it reads 2c again so on a particular freezing night it would obviously kick into life every hour. Webasto do indeed advise that multiple 'half-runs' would cause coke up, however as part of the frost stat protection software the burner is protected by ensuring it get upto the designated temperature in order to burn any excess carbon. Good insulation of the system is required as with any heating to ensure you are not repeatly heating unnessarily.

Glow plug replacement is about 185 + vat plus labour, which usually is about one hour maximum as it's a very simple job.

Successful power control was a huge feature requirement of all our systems (cold/or hot) - if the kit is fitted - why should you have to be worrying about power all the time? We regularly find many users of competitors systems struggling with power issues and banging their heads against a brick wall. In fact we have carried out a number of upgrades to competitor machines on behalf of customers in order to fix the issue. The main issue is: most of the power packs and split relays out on the market today are only trickle charge - thus if you only drive locally in a day, they just do not get charged. All of our systems feature a float system, which include automatic rapid or trickle charge depending on what is required, this your system is looked after even if your work is local.

Our system looks after the user by automatically shutting the system down if the on board software reads that the wfp delivery pump has been disconnected for a prolonged period. Prior to this excess heat is diverted back into the tank to prevent carbon build up.

Carbon build up has also been addressed by the new boilers which run much more efficiently and heat the water very rapidly.

The diesel used by the system can be seen on the flo meter provided. Many of our customers always opt for vehicle integration as it prevents the staff from having to worry about multiple tanks to fill up etc, it also prevents miss fueling of the system.

However if a customer was in a similar situation to you, requested an aux fuel tank we would certianly provide that option.

Our systems are simple and easy for the customer to use - with two years warranty as standard on the boilers as well.

Thank you your time an effort in putting that comprehensive answer together - I appreciate that.

I like the idea of a flo meter and can fully understand why a single tank is the right way to go when staff are involved - good idea.

Please tell me about the split charge relay system you mentioned.

Whilst our split charge relays are of the intelligent type only in that they allow the leisure battery to be charged once the van battery has been sufficiently charged (it usually kicks in within about 20 secs or less of starting the van), our unit relies on the alternator to provide that charge.

I have a Citroen Relay van with a 2 man system which is powered by a 110 amph leisure battery. I also have a Volt/amp meter gauge attached to the system so I can see what it going on with the battery. Even if my battery is around 75% charged, my alternator wouldn't provide any more than 5 to 6 amps as that is all the battery will accept.

My Numax leisure battery is sealed so it can't be charged too quickly as there isn't any way for the gas to escape or replace that gas with distilled water.

Sterling had a contract more than ten years ago to upgrade ambulances with better auxillary battery charging systems as the emergency crews were finding they couldn't operate equipment due to flat batteries. I don't know enough about their very costly units to comment, but I do know that last year I had to call for an ambulance in the middle of the night for my wife. They took about an hour to stabilise her condition and during that time the ambulance was out in the street with the engine running. It wasn't as though they had forgotten to switch it off as both of them made the trip out to the ambulance a number of times whilst they were there.

The 100 amp split charge relays you have on your site appear to be 100 amp relays with the software to make them work intelligently - they are just a higher rated unit that the 30 amp ones we are using on our vans. The terminal numbering, 85, 87, 86 and 30 are standard relay terminal identification numbers.  Unless you are referring to something else.

[robert mitchell]

I cab certainly vouch that the relay they fitted to my van (not a heated system) works brilliantly , never had to charge it since .

I do however use a car battery which i understand can take a higher charge rate .

Would be interested in grippa s opinion on that .

[Spruce]

I cab certainly vouch that the relay they fitted to my van (not a heated system) works brilliantly , never had to charge it since .

I do however use a car battery which i understand can take a higher charge rate .

Would be interested in grippa s opinion on that .

me to.  

Stirling products want £390 to £500.00 for a special split charge relay that they say chargers up to 5 times faster, but they show no comparisons, no graphs, no proof.  Nothing is said about a sealed leisure battery and gassing. (Up to 5 times faster sounds like a broadband offer that is never what they say it is).

I have an intelligent battery charger. When I plug it in to charge the leisure battery, I find that the charger charges it at a lower amperage and voltage than the van's alternator does. It will only charge at a maximum of 13.9v where the vans alternator pushes that up to 14.4v so squeezes more charge into it.

[Simon Spencer]

Very interested in this topic!!

Keep it going 😊

[Spruce]

We will get it up to the top of the pile, so hopefully they will respond when they get into work this morning.  

We got some good input on Saturday which is appreciated.

[Oliver @ GrippaTank]

Good morning,

Many thanks for all the enquiries and questions.

I am going to try and assign one of our electricians to help answer all your questions today, so please bear with us until this afternoon.

[robert mitchell]

thank you

[dazmond]

would it not be more economical to have a separate tank for the diesel for the heater?then you could use the cheaper red diesel?

ive not done the maths on what the difference is between  diesel and gas heaters in regards to running costs.

as a sole trader i try and keep my overheads as low as possible.

[Spruce]

would it not be more economical to have a separate tank for the diesel for the heater?then you could use the cheaper red diesel?

ive not done the maths on what the difference is between  diesel and gas heaters in regards to running costs.

as a sole trader i try and keep my overheads as low as possible.

Hi Daz

Trouble is the Webasto's don't work well on red diesel. There is something about it, ie, low quality of fuel, too much surphur, the red dye, that causes the unit to coke up with carbon, smoke and then finally fail to start.

The Yacht and boat forums are full of tales of woe and Webasto has advised that these are down to the use of red diesel which is sold on marinas for boat use. They also blame cycling issues where the diesel burner doesn't get a good burn to clear away the soot before the heater shuts down.

Hurricane heaters (supplied and fitted by Broadex and Omnipole) advertise that their heaters will run quite happily on red diesel, but a service technician said that he also gets similar issues with these coking up as well.

There is a window cleaner based not too far from us in Saltburn. He runs a Transit Hi roof LWB van with a 'hot box' and makeshift chimney through the roof. ('Makeshift is my way of saying that the hotbox he was using didn't seem to have a proper collar on the unit to secure an exhaust pipe to.)
My son and I noticed this van as we were descending Saltburn bank parked in the parking area by the pier. The roof of his van was black with soot. I knew he used hot water as I had seen his van often sticked up advertising that he washed windows with hot water.

I stopped to talk to him and he said that he was using red diesel in his hotbox which is the reason why his roof was so black. Red diesel is readily available around our area on the coast as this is what the fisherman use in their fishing boats, and, whilst it is illegal to use in a vehicle driven on the road, it is perfectly legal to use it in a diesel heater in the vehicle.

So the way I see it - if that is what his roof looks like, then what does the inside of the burner look like? Red diesel maybe cheaper, but the maintenance bills will be far in excess of the fuel savings, especially if a speciallised Webasto service agent has the repair to do.

[Spruce]

Good morning,

Many thanks for all the enquiries and questions.

I am going to try and assign one of our electricians to help answer all your questions today, so please bear with us until this afternoon.

Thanks from me as well

[Oliver @ GrippaTank]

Afternoon Gentleman,

Just a note to say, we haven't forgotten about your questions - our engineers are upto their eyes in system building. I will hopefully still grab one of them before the day is out!