[Crystal-clear]

For those who used or want to pay for canvassed work

Only direct debit canvassed from the first clean and some sort of a garentee would you pay 5x clean? So £500 for £2,500

or would you prefer to pay the usal 2 cleans and have more filtering.

If you run a small operation and have no plans to employ in near future the 2x clean customer and the ones who need a text or collect might not be too hard to manage

But if you are looking for a more simple transaction ie £xxxx a week already being paid via direct debit in exchange for £xxx for a paye staff member to clean maybe 5x is worth it you would be jumping strait into really good customers rather then endure the mistery cancelation ?

What would you choose?also if you already sell direct debits whats your method?

[HampshireWindowCleaning]

Why do you think no one will cancel just because they are on direct debit?
Ok they can't knock you for the money but you will still get loads cancel after first clean or a few months down the line.
So no, I wouldn't pay more than 2x clean.

[Crystal-clear]

I don't think you would get that many , cos you will be asking for so much infomatoin on the door and only offering customer to setup a direct debit no cash or any other method I think that it will pre filter many customers even some good ones will be put off

[pdale]

5x for canvassed for is far too much. There shouldn't be an issue with paying 2x if the canvasser is willing to top up and replace any messers.

In my experience, other than it being set up right on the door, customers want to see you do a good job. Do a bad clean and you'll lose them whether they are direct debit or not.

You can generally filter the good from the bad on the doorstep, irrespective of how they are going to pay.

[Paul Coleman]

I have never had a good experience when buying work.  It's ranged from poor to fair.  I would be very unlikely to buy work again.  It's not even necessarily a rip-off.  It's just that the sellers idea of viable work can be very different from the buyer's.  I would rather have three easily accessible semis fairly close to each other than mess around trying to make appointments for a very big house behind electric gates.

[Crystal-clear]

I think I'd  pay 5x clean with a 5x guarantee for direct debit customers only
big difference
No mystery cancelations
No non payers
No cash flow issues (important if you plan to hire at £20k+expenses a year)

It cuts out all the crap from the get go and I think its worth it

doing a good job on a customer who wants a one off will always be a one off
People who want one offs won't ever tell the truth they lie... To get what they want for cheap and will promise you everything after a couple of times or so its cancelation time
They also normally feel embrassed about cancelling and do so in a letter or text or on the day for some reason they feel its better this way and a DD customer will need to cancel the DD so you will know way in advance which is much better

end of the day all they really want is a good clean and saying they want a one off will a) increase the price or b) you don't even want the job, = loose situation for them

There is a reason pdale why you left window cleaning and choose canvassing that's because you are very aware of the effort that it takes establishing a window cleaning round ,Not saying you never had a good round or knocking you in any way infact the opposite as you are smart to realise the power of commission ,  

establishing these customers is not easy,not if you don't do it the customers way
If you did everything the customer wanted then ofc it is,

one canvasser I used a while ago insisted I give em ladder work if requested collect, drop the price ,call them,work on Sunday things I havnt done in years in order to keep more customers work harder and make less money n put me back to 5 years ago lol!

[Perfect Windows]

...
No cash flow issues (important if you plan to hire at £20k+expenses a year)
...

Except the rather major cashflow problem of paying out 5x clean price today, to collect back over the next X months or so (as you're paying people to do the work, you're not retrieving the full value of the clean into your cash pool).  On that basis you could be putting your business at risk if you don't have the working capital required to cover that.

Vin

[Scrimble]

I have paid less than 1x clean for canvassed customers, 5x for canvassed work no chance

[Crystal-clear]

I just want to eliminate the messers from the get goi think DD from the start would help alot it is expensive though but in pretty sure they will be solid , only problem is a canvasser might only get 3 a day so would need to be compensated

[Perfect Windows]

I just want to eliminate the messers from the get goi think DD from the start would help alot it is expensive though but in pretty sure they will be solid , only problem is a canvasser might only get 3 a day so would need to be compensated

If you're prepared to pay 5x for a DD customer, you're looking at, say £75 (not sure what your prices are but follow the logic).

If you think someone can do 3 a day, then rather than paying £75 x 3 = £225 to a canvasser, why not pay 3x  per customer to your own canvasser?  That's £45 per customer, so £135 a day for canvassing.  Or  about £30,000 a year.  You could employ very high quality staff for that much and you're in control of what they do.

Just a thought as an alternative.

Vin

[pdale]

There are a number of reasons I left window cleaning to canvas but retention wasn't one of them. I do take your point about some window cleaners doing things the customers way to keep them on board, that was probably my mistake when window cleaning, hence my retention was good. Ive learnt more in the last year canvassing, seeing how a number of window cleaners work slightly different ways, to the previous 25 years. If ever I was start window cleaning again I'd certainly do things different.

In my opinion retention is only a problem for larger firms,  (of which i believe you are large ?),  because of that to certain degree it becomes a faceless company in comparison to a window cleaner who works on his own or with one other.

The problem I see asking for direct debit on the door is as you say there would be a number refusing on that basis, because of that you'd be missing alot of work. Not everyone lies on the door and although you can't prevent the occasional one, this can be minimised, in general people can be booked up as regulars from the off.

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) retention can be better achieved by the 'boss' doing the first clean, making sure a good job is done and/or collecting the money the first time only before setting them up on bacs or card payments. If the customer only sees the company name on slips put through the door after a clean it becomes easier for them to cancel if they want to. I think you'd be missing out on work if the canvasser was only booking 3 a day as there are alternative ways to improve retention, though admittedly its never going to be 100%, but then neither is buying a round going to be 100% on changeover.

[Crystal-clear]

Good post, no I'm not large but I'm full and have a Subbie day once a week so maybe I'm somewhere at the cresp but been here a while,

its very frustrating trying to break out of it as the quality of customers are important at this stage ,and the messers are 10x worse then they ever have been as we already have established customers so unfortunately the tradishonal good will canvassing isn't very effective for me at least.

One for perfect windows . I tryed leafleting 7k in one day wasn't my cup of tea 12 jobs had similar problems but was t impressed with the lead flow maybe I should try it again still have 20k leaflets sitting here

[roundbuilder]

5 cleans for canvassed work?? Direct debit or not no thanks! Even at 2 cleans its a rip off if you look into it further as around 50 percent would drop out and not be the canvassers fault as the rush of first cleans always causes problems which a canvasser wouldnt replace as not there fault ( had it many times) so it ends up being 4/5 cleans after all the jobs slowly drop over 2-6 months.
The way i see it if someone has 5x to pay for work then they would want to buy fully established work and not some crap a canvasser has just knocked up.
You have to remember a canvasser always tell you what you want to here.
Verey few success storys from canvassed rounds and more and more from leafletted rounds. Those who canvass there own rounds ends up a different story as would choose the right houses and areas to knock as is pure common sence!
Whizz and pdale are the only canvassers i havnt heard of any negativity from but still i dont see anyone handing them over 5 cleans for direct debit custers!.
If anyone does want to pay 5 cleans for direct debit customers give me a shout and ill go and do it for you  ... Reality though it simply wont happen.

[roundbuilder]

I do think there is a good market out there to charge 3 cleans plus for sold board customers though for someone to start up! If i had more time id do something along those lines as the sold board customers always are solid and reliable. Well they have been for me.

[Perfect Windows]

One for perfect windows . I tryed leafleting 7k in one day wasn't my cup of tea 12 jobs had similar problems but was t impressed with the lead flow maybe I should try it again still have 20k leaflets sitting here

Might be worth it.  Have you considered my last post?

Vin

[Crystal-clear]

Imagine the amount of filtering ,

Asking for full details
Pointing out regular price
Only providing a direct debit mandate as method of payment (no cash,no pay after)
I feel alot of customers even some good ones who want to pay after clean Won't go forward with it,

I feel The ones who take up the direct debit will be extreamly strong , I'm not saying some wont cancel but its alot of rigmarole for the customer to start up and cancel if they wanted a one two or three off they wouldn't  I know its easy to cancel a DD but remember there is a reason why we only get 10 jobs out of 5000 leaflets because we have to rely on them picking up the phone just ask your self Netflix ,love film, any other small DD that you may not have actually wanted bet you let some go a while more even if you wanted to cancel it you know its a small amount of money and doesn't bother you,

now imagine a £7 front £3.50 a month on a 2 monthly for your window cleaner who does a good job leaves a card thanking you for using DD even if you wanted to cancel you wouldn't be bothered too , everything's so easy you don't need to worry about having money on the day, logging on to online banking, writing a cheque etc etc
The what they think as random turnups sudenly become no problem you already have paid,
Its easy to see the strength of the direct debits imagine racking up £45k+ pa on direct debit and employing for £25k with costs etc at least a profit of £20k+ per van
This way Window cleaning becomes a real simple transaction and would bring back the fun factor in the game that I'm trying to rekindle

So yea basied on all that I would punt £2,500 for a good £500 a month with a secure reasonable garentee (5x) and only pay after the first debits are processed and confirmed, with the aim gradually to expand in that method if it worked

[Crystal-clear]

One for perfect windows . I tryed leafleting 7k in one day wasn't my cup of tea 12 jobs had similar problems but was t impressed with the lead flow maybe I should try it again still have 20k leaflets sitting here

Might be worth it.  Have you considered my last post?

Vin

No unfortunately offering a job as commission I have tryed before its quite a nightmare trying to find peope who can hack it also wouldn't dare pay anywhere near that amount for the usal kind of customers , I can get them myself too but havnt tryed selling direct debits cos I know it will be maybe even 1 a big hard day and it will be extreamly demoralising , and considering I am busy already its also a false econemy to do it myself ..

Do you think 12 cleans 6 regulars is bad for 7k dropped and £600 later
I know u have made a success out leafleting but It didn't really work for me and a couple of those first cleans I had to almost beg drop the price when they called(money already spent wanted to claw back) also cleaned some roofs so I felt very exposed and very much get what you are given so after that spell I prefered canvassed work
Maybe I gave up on leafleting too soon

[Perfect Windows]

No unfortunately offering a job as commission I have tryed before its quite a nightmare trying to find peope who can hack it also wouldn't dare pay anywhere near that amount for the usal kind of customers , I can get them myself too but havnt tryed selling direct debits cos I know it will be maybe even 1 a big hard day and it will be extreamly demoralising , and considering I am busy already its also a false econemy to do it myself ..

Do you think 12 cleans 6 regulars is bad for 7k dropped and £600 later
I know u have made a success out leafleting but It didn't really work for me and a couple of those first cleans I had to almost beg drop the price when they called(money already spent wanted to claw back) also cleaned some roofs so I felt very exposed and very much get what you are given so after that spell I prefered canvassed work
Maybe I gave up on leafleting too soon

Fair enough - just a thought about employing a canvasser.  Sounds like it's not for you.

Couple of things on the leaflets. £600 for 7,000 is a lot.  Delivered, including leaflets I'm way below that these days.

7k would get about 30 for us at the right time of year.  One thing to note is that ours are only delivered to houses; no flats, no council areas no mainly private rental areas.  Might be part of the hit rate.  Also, time of year matters, as does sample size.  If you're expecting 28 responses and get 12 it might just be an unlucky bundle.  If you were expecting 280 and got 120, I'd say it was significant.

If you still have 20,000 leaflets it might be worth giving them a go when the clocks go forward.

Leafletting isn't the only solution.  Despite what some people on here seem compelled to say, it's not a matter of either one or the other; they both have their place.  I've chosen leafletting for very specific reasons that I've posted about endlessly but different people have different circumstances.  If something doesn't work, then I'd stop it.  What I wouldn't then say is that it won't work for anyone.  However, my personal experience is that I have now gained enough customers through leafletting that I have confidence in the method which makes me stick to it.  Each to their own, though.

Vin

[Paul Coleman]

One for perfect windows . I tryed leafleting 7k in one day wasn't my cup of tea 12 jobs had similar problems but was t impressed with the lead flow maybe I should try it again still have 20k leaflets sitting here

Might be worth it.  Have you considered my last post?

Vin

No unfortunately offering a job as commission I have tryed before its quite a nightmare trying to find peope who can hack it also wouldn't dare pay anywhere near that amount for the usal kind of customers , I can get them myself too but havnt tryed selling direct debits cos I know it will be maybe even 1 a big hard day and it will be extreamly demoralising , and considering I am busy already its also a false econemy to do it myself ..

Do you think 12 cleans 6 regulars is bad for 7k dropped and £600 later
I know u have made a success out leafleting but It didn't really work for me and a couple of those first cleans I had to almost beg drop the price when they called(money already spent wanted to claw back) also cleaned some roofs so I felt very exposed and very much get what you are given so after that spell I prefered canvassed work
Maybe I gave up on leafleting too soon

6 regular customers from 7k dropped leaflets?  That sounds unusually low to me.  Doesn't mean you did something wrong though - might just have been wrong areas at wrong time.  I have hit 4% before but that was a smallish sample so probably a blip.  More typically 3-8 customers per thousand - though it does vary substantially.  1,000 might yield nothing or it might yield 12.  Never can say.

[Crystal-clear]

I wouldn't say I'm againts employing a good canvasser just not up for sorcing my own, for example mark at whizz bizz has in the past done a great job for me and would recommend him to others starting out or established, I think its just me at the moment being a little warn down with first clean lark and hoping to by pass most messers with the DD method!

As for leaflets it was £60+vat £72 x 7 = £504 plus like £100 for the leaflets
£600 used jogpost and saw them all delivered
Was also hoping for maybe 20 decent customers was very far off that
It was mid spring so good time