[Old_Master]

[url][Mid Kent Water apply to Defra for
non essential use drought order/url]

If the application is approved, the drought order will enable Mid Kent Water to introduce further restrictions on both domestic and commercial water use. These will includewashing of vehicles and cleaning of exterior of buildings and windows
A public hearing is due to be held in Maidstone in April, at which Mid Kent Water will present its case to a government inspector. The inspector will make his judgement known to the Secretary of State and Defra will notify the company of its decision on the application thereafter.

As many window cleaners as possible need to turn up to oppose this ludicrous ban.
We are all being singled out.
Whilst the coca cola factory in Kent uses 10s of millions of litres of  a day window cleaners cant use a bucket of water!!
We must do all we can if it costs a days wages we need to attend this ban will affect everybody soon!
Glyn

[Ian_Giles]

Glyn,
Surely the ban won't apply to the traditional window cleaner

Us WFP'ers are an obvious easy target, but I can't believe they would extend the ban to trad...would they??

What an earth is the point of banning window cleaning in any form?
In any average town there are only a handfull of us.
In a town and area of say...10,000 people there are perhaps somewhere between 10 and 20 window cleaners, and if figures being bandied about are accurate, about 5 of them will be using WFP.

One householder watering his lawn for a couple of hours will use more than one of those WFP'ers use all day long.
To ban window cleaners working when they make up such a tiny percentage of a towns populace is unbelievably stupid.
What an earth is the point?
The water saved is absolutely piddling.

If the Coca Cola factory turned off all the taps for 30 seconds they would save more water in that time than all of the window cleaners in that county would use in a day, a day?
Hell, probably a month or more.
And just because the window cleaner is a VISIBLE  user of water he is an easy target.

If I lived in this area, or was close enough to make the journey to this hearing I would do so.
I hope that many who are within commuting distance will attend the hearing and make themselves heard.

Ian

[Paul Coleman]

For Christ's sake this is absurd.
With trad window cleaning you can use your spent bath water which would be going down the drain anyway.

[ValueValeting]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FCFBE5DTODIKZQFIQMGCFGGAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/03/21/nwater21.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/21/ixportal.html

Sorry you may have to register to read this.

Quote from text - "If the Government approves them, it will be illegal to fill a garden pond, use a sprinkler in a park or wash a car with a bucket and sponge.

Public golf courses, cricket pitches and historic gardens will be particularly badly hit. Only those with private water supplies will remain green."

[williamx]

Glyn,
Surely the ban won't apply to the traditional window cleaner

Us WFP'ers are an obvious easy target, but I can't believe they would extend the ban to trad...would they??

Mid Kent Water has today (20th March 2006) applied to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) for a non essential use drought order.

If the application is approved, the drought order will enable Mid Kent Water to introduce further restrictions on both domestic and commercial water use. These will include:

watering by hosepipe, sprinklers or other similar apparatus of parks, gardens, allotments and other surfaces used for sports or recreation, whether publicly or privately owned
filling of privately owned swimming pools
washing of vehicles and cleaning of exterior of buildings and windows
A public hearing is due to be held in Maidstone in April, at which Mid Kent Water will present its case to a government inspector. The inspector will make his judgement known to the Secretary of State and Defra will notify the company of its decision on the application thereafter.

 

Mid Kent Water introduced restrictions on hosepipe use for all domestic customers on the 8th August 2005. These restrictions remain in place until further notice.

For additional information, please contact

Bobbie Lakhera

Tel: 01634 873033
Fax: 01634 240996
e-mail: Bobbie Lakhera.   
 
Its say window cleaning, if you use a bucket and squeegie, how much water will you use and how will you prove it. 

[Sarah Sarill]

Glyn,

I read with great interest your posts on this subject elsewhere are would ask that you also post a copy of the letter you used to send to your local MP to highlight the plight of our industry should this ban restrict the use of water for cleaning windows (including single buckets as well as wfp).

Whilst there are a lot of cross-over posters to numerous sites, there are many additional posters on this busy site who would be prepared to send some to their local MP's for this cause even if they are not affected YET.

Thanks Glyn

Sarah

[24-7 S C Services]

Hi Everyone,

This is a copy of my letter, which I have sent to local MP's, newspapers and sky news. Edit it to your own needs and forward it to as many departments as you can. This drought order effects all window cleaners’ not just wfp users.

The APWC, has asked the FWC to work along side each other on this matter (response is pending) and the APWC will be uploading a Petition to its website this evening and we hope everyone on this site and other sites will take 5 minuets to fill it in completely. This will be forwarded to the PM and also produced at all meetings concerning this matter.

A copy of the letter to the FWC will be available for viewing in the APWC forum later today and the Petition this evening.


IF WE ALL STAND TOGETHER, WE WILL GO FAR

Many Thanks

Andrew





Dear Sirs/ Madams;

I must protest in the strongest terms regarding the proposed Sutton and East Surrey Water and Thames Water board Drought order. Particularly in relation to the banning of the use of Water Fed Poles by the window cleaning industry.

Due to the Health and Safety Executives (HSE) Working at Heights Directive brought about in April 2005 the only safe method acceptable to professionally clean windows is water fed pole, a method where by purified water (Tap or well water is passed through a device known as a Reverse Osmosis unit to produce 100 % pure water) this is then pumped up through a telescopic pole to reach and clean windows up to 60' from the ground.

I have up graded to this type of cleaning method as a result of the HSE Working at Height Directive and at a cost of over £10,000.00 to my business. If as a result of the ban, I was forced to go back to traditional methods, My investment would be a loss, I would also loose half of my clients as they are now far more impressed with the cleaning results from a water fed pole and my insurance would also become null and void and I would also find it virtually impossible to find cover for working off a ladder.

This method uses very little water indeed only one litre of water per minute is required to clean windows, an average three bedroom house would take only 7 to 10 litres of water.
 
In the United Kingdom 180,000 workers are employed in the Window Cleaning Industry, with many thousands of these in the area where a ban on this safe method of working is proposed. To ban this method could well cause deaths and serious injuries to Window Cleaners forced back to unsafe methods of work. 

It appears window cleaners due to their visibility will be singled out whilst other industries will continue to use thousands of litres for non essential works behind closed doors and almost a billion litres of water a day goes to waste through leaks.

I strongly feel the government should be placing pressure on the water authorities to spend their millions of pounds profits on replacing the leaking under ground water pipes and not to be imposing restrictions on the general public for the negligence of these authorities.

This Drought order, if carried forward, will cause many self employed and small business owners to shut down and no doubt, force tens of thousands of window cleaners to become unemployed.

Please contact me as soon as possible as there are only three days left to oppose the drought order proposal.

[Franky2020]

Hunting was banned but what is happening,dont worry about it.

[alan_t]

refering to that letter above, and not moaning or trying to start any thing off about it, i can understand the costs of buying the system, and do understand what you are saying.
but 7 to 10 litres per house is quite alot really thinking about it, thats getting on for around 2 gallons of water  per house.

i clean traditional, and i can clean 15 houses and not even use 2 gallons of water.

so i can understand why they want to ban window cleaning, maybe its time for the WFP user to start doing traditional methods for now.
im sure customers will not disagree with the current circumstances, and explaining that you are using the old method because of a water shortage.

[williamx]

Alan t

What do you say to the window cleaner or next of kin, who might have an accident because he has gone back to ladder use.

How many houses should you clean with this bucket of water before you replenish it?

Will your customers be happy that they are now having their windows cleaned with dirty water instead of clean water?

What happens if the water boards decide that window cleaning is not allowed at all, this would cover someone using a bucket or thimble of water.

[alansavvi]

refering to that letter above, and not moaning or trying to start any thing off about it, i can understand the costs of buying the system, and do understand what you are saying.
but 7 to 10 litres per house is quite alot really thinking about it, thats getting on for around 2 gallons of water  per house.

i clean traditional, and i can clean 15 houses and not even use 2 gallons of water.

so i can understand why they want to ban window cleaning, maybe its time for the WFP user to start doing traditional methods for now.
im sure customers will not disagree with the current circumstances, and explaining that you are using the old method because of a water shortage.

Sorry mate what you say is rubbish.

They are only going for a visible small trader like we all are because we have no one to fight in our corner, big industries dont get stopped because there would be hell to pay by the water companies.

This is a PR exercise by them. They cannot shut down businesses because of there mismanagement. I believe every bit of water i use with my wfp is essential. It is essential to pay me workers, mortgage, food etc!

Don't insult us that use wfp, we have invested money to be safe and effective. Water is a precious resource but one not wasted by wfp users!

Get your perspective right first before we have anymore ludicrus comments against wfp users, either be part of the whole industry or go your own way!

[Sir Squeaky]

refering to that letter above, and not moaning or trying to start any thing off about it, i can understand the costs of buying the system, and do understand what you are saying.
but 7 to 10 litres per house is quite alot really thinking about it, thats getting on for around 2 gallons of water  per house.

i clean traditional, and i can clean 15 houses and not even use 2 gallons of water.

so i can understand why they want to ban window cleaning, maybe its time for the WFP user to start doing traditional methods for now.
im sure customers will not disagree with the current circumstances, and explaining that you are using the old method because of a water shortage.

I didn't want to be the one to say it Alan.

You're absolutely right though, it's a ludicrous amount of water they use.
They just don't want to part with their precious poles though because they cost so much!

Are ladders more dangerous now than when they used them before? :
Gotta laugh. We'll just carry on earning eh?

Rog.

[windows_chepstow]

If you read Glyn's post, you'll see it affects 'window cleaning'.

There's no difference between WFP or ladder use.

[Moderator David@stives]

Squeeky

Ladders are certainly more dangerous to wfp uses than before.

The simple reason is you forget everything you learned of how to stay safe.

When you use ladders everyday you get tuned to them and they become an extension of your body.

When you have not used ladders for a while it is like learning all over again, since i changed to wfp  i do not feel the same up a ladder as i did before and i tend to make more mistakes.

[williamx]

Rog

I also clean carpets and I use more water, cleaning someones bathroom than I do, for their windows, so should all carpet cleaners be banned?

A domestic cleaner uses more water, washing someones dishes than a wfp cleaner, should they be made redundant?

Should the cleaners in hospitals be sacked because they use a lot of water?

The whole cleaning industry uses loads of water, should they all be put out of work?

and finally the way the Drought Order is worded, it means that you cannot clean external windows, it doesn't say that non wfp window cleaners can.  So this affects you, unless who can lick the windows clean.

[dai]

We are a minority therefore an easy target. We could clean windows with rain water if we had to. If you were working in the rain and just blading off the glass, you would be breaking the law. What a load of ba££ocks.
would it be OK to use my windscreen washers? Or do we drive around with restricted visibility and have accidents. Let them put us all in jail, we would get better treatment. Dai

[windows_chepstow]

We could use 'Tesco's Finest' window cleaning spray?

It's obviously a 'political' decision.  It wouldn't be right for car washes and window cleaners to be seen to use water on 'non-essential' work, when when some 'Kentish Man' can't water his garden with a hose.

Remember, we're on display to the general public.

Thousands of window cleaners won't be put out of work; factories won't close and the world will still turn.

The decision makers want to be seen to be taking a 'hard-line', therefore PUBLIC displays of water 'wastage' should not be tolerated.

Never mind the X-amount of thousands of gallons lost through leaky pipes.

See Andrew's post and do what he asks if you feel strongly enough:

Hi Everyone,

This is a copy of my letter, which I have sent to local MP's, newspapers and sky news. Edit it to your own needs and forward it to as many departments as you can. This drought order effects all window cleaners’ not just wfp users.

The APWC, has asked the FWC to work along side each other on this matter (response is pending) and the APWC will be uploading a Petition to its website this evening and we hope everyone on this site and other sites will take 5 minuets to fill it in completely. This will be forwarded to the PM and also produced at all meetings concerning this matter.

A copy of the letter to the FWC will be available for viewing in the APWC forum later today and the Petition this evening.


IF WE ALL STAND TOGETHER, WE WILL GO FAR

Many Thanks

Andrew

[simbo]

i cannot believe so many of you have added to this post, what a load of b******s they could never inforce this, how could they prove i was not using stored rainwater and worst comes to worst as said tesco's window spray
sinb0

[dai]

and worst comes to worst as said tesco's window spray
sinb0
Yes, or the bottles filled with your own solution. You could start collecting the big bottled water containers, preferably from France, and say you made your solution from it.
I can't see how we would be affected here in Wales, floods are more of a problem than
shortages. we should all stand united on this issue though. It's a matter of principle. Dai

[Ian_Giles]

Squeaks as usual needs to get a little perspective on the issue.

As I said in my own reply at the top of the page, window cleaners are small fry (ok, I didn't actually use those words ) But the gist of the reply was that we use (WFP'ers that is) less water in a day than someone watering their lawn for a couple of hours.

As I said (and shall repeat) in a town and area of 10,000 or so people there will be at best about 10 or 20 window cleaners...tops and about 5 of them will be WFP users.

What possible difference are they going to make?

Get the Coca Cola factory to cut back production by 0.5% and you will save more water in a day than all the WFP'ers in the county would use in several months.

And of course the water companies themselves, nationally lose close to one thousand million litres per day.
To say that WFP users are wasteful with water is bloody ridiculous.

And as Tosh pointed out, and was inferred in Glyn's original post, the ban may well include traditional window cleaners.
Another dry summer, followed by another winter similar to this one and there are going to be very real problems indeed, and they are going to affect a darn sight more than a handful of window cleaners in each town.

You just know that the water companies and the Government are more or less keeping their respective fingers crossed that the rain will come.....but if we are in for a trend of drier seasons for a decade or so, and lets face it, this winter has been the first cold one for well over 10 years, as a nation we could well have some major problems ahead of us.


Ian