[John Kelly]

Seen a post elswhere regarding bad dog smell in carpet. The cleaner had used a Colloidal Detergent to tackle it. In my view a totally unsuitable product for this problem. First of all Colloidals are not that good at tackling oily residues especially at the dilution rates specified for carpet cleaning. Dog smells are usually caused by the Lanolin from the coat absording into the carpet fibres. This is quite a robust oil and needs heat and a robust chemical to deal with it. There can also be problems with bacteria feeding on the oils enhancing the odour problem. Colloidals are classed as neither anti microbial or insecticidal. They are a detergent made from plant extracts. They are really effective for cleaning Vomit and Urine Stains and work better on wool than they do on manmade fibres, probably because they don't cling to the fibres long enough to "digest" the dirt.
For doggy smells I would personally recommend an enzyme based product put down hot, agitated and left to dwell then extracted with very hot water. You should also mix in a product such as Formula 429, Microkill or Clensan to deal with any bacterial issues.

[Tony Stewart]

Agreed: Then put it on the end of a truckmount 

[Mike Halliday]

If you ask the butcher to suggest something for tea he won't suggest a piece of fish

The best way to deal with smells is to remove the source but I've been researching the use of hydrogen peroxide in carpet cleaning and according to a lot of info I've been reading smells or stains from organic matter ( dog coat oil smell) really remove well with HP. just bought a litre of 40% (or volume forget which) and I'm going to do some serious testing with it

[rich123]

Can you post your findings on the forum Mike.
I'd be interested to know the result.

Thanks
Rich

[David Ware]

If unsure ask a reputable cleaning supplier, they have a vast amount of chemistry knowledge and experience to back it up. John from Restormate and Cleaning System both post regular on this forum.
David

[Steve. Taylor]

John I thought the same see my reply that's if its not been removed I used the swear word chemspec 

[Richard Cole]

John

I believe you are referring to a post i made on another site, not going to mention product or company as there has already been to many slinging matches but if you had read my post thoroughly then you would have seen that the area with the problem was the kitchen and hall area which was laminate and which i had not treated, i was asked to clean the carpets!!

However the the letting agent has asked me back to discuss this area, the agent has already told me that the smell is coming from the front of the house where there is no carpet, the rest of the house is fine which i treated with said Colloidal product, which i have used successfully on several previous properties (carpets) with a strong dog smell.

I was asking for advice on the laminate floor area, i posted the thread however in the carpet cleaning section as i had been asked to clean the carpets at this property as the landlord which i did but i informed the landlords that all there was an odour in the carpets it was not nearly as bad as at the front of the property where there was laminate and the dog kept.

I was also under the impression colloidal products were detergent free.

[john martin]

John


I was also under the impression colloidal products were detergent free.

can you define detergent ?   

From wiki ...
A detergent is a surfactant or a mixture of surfactants with "cleaning properties in dilute solutions .

The colloidal products are referred to as  biobased surfactants  .

Hence ...  M-power is detergent   

[Richard Cole]

I'm not a expert on chemistry John but there are plenty of other cleaning agents claiming to be detergent free, wouldn't by the same definition Chemspec DFC be a detergent, which claim to be detergent free, or would it be safer to say caustic free for these products.

[john martin]

I'm not a expert on chemistry John but there are plenty of other cleaning agents claiming to be detergent free, wouldn't by the same definition Chemspec DFC be a detergent, which claim to be detergent free, or would it be safer to say caustic free for these products.

Yes ,   there is no chemical called detergent , its a name given to a collection of cleaning ingredients .   
So in ' detergent free '  products what is the offensive ingredient they are deliberately omitting  , and why are they leaving it out  , and is whats left not still detergent by definition . ?     

[Len Gribble]

It’s beyond me but understand contraction of the terms cut and pasted

Surfactant is a term derived from contraction of the terms ‘Surface Active Agents’. These are a group of amphiphilic organic compounds which help to lower the surface tension of a liquid or interfacial tension between two liquids. These usually act as a detergents or wetting agents or emulsifiers or foaming agents. The wetting and penetration effect, emulsification, dispersion, foaming, detergency, conditioning, and substantivity are some of the important properties of surfactants due to which these are widely used across different industries. The report describes about global surfactant market based on the geography, product types, substrate type, and application of surfactants. The report covers qualitative aspect of surfactants and detailed volume (thousand tons) and value ($million) forecasts (2010-2017) of surfactants.

[Richard Cole]

Thanks Len, much clearer now thank you

Not helped when even the suppliers can't decide if or what detergent free is, do a search on Restormate for detergent free and up comes DFC range and Nemesis (a Colloidal) comes up as one of 13 products as detergent free,  look at Cleansmart and under microsplitters and detergent free you get DFC range and Nemesis amongst others again.

Not knocking anyone but it seems that this is a common misconception, as i said i'm not nor do i pretend to know anything about chemistry, failed my 0'level but isn't it just a clever marketing ploy or play on words?  I was always under the impression that detergent free meant no nasty chemicals, i.e caustic, then of course you get those who claim to be chemical free, when i see others mention that water is technically a chemical

[John Kelly]

Richard I understood your post but just personally think a colloidal is not a suitable product for this problem thats all I was getting at. I have had customers only this week saying they have been called back to nursing homes where the product hasn't done what was required. I have even had them telling me it is their preferred Flea treatment .I sell exactly the same stuff myself so have no gripe with the product as long as its used appropriately.
As regards detergent free, this is a minefield isn't it. I think the general  consensus of a detergent is a soap type cleaner based on Alkylbenzenesulfonates or Quaternary Ammonium compounds. These are chemicals made from petrochemicals and other active ingredients some of which can be hazardous.
Products described as "detergent free" do not contain any of these substances. I think it is just a way of describing these products as there doesn't seem to be many other options which would have the same marketing clout.

[john martin]

 The earliest reference i can see is the  ' onestep ' product  .  ( some of u that are here for ever probably know all about it )
The german site                   http://www.onestep-europe.de/  
States that the concept was developed in the USA in the early 90s ,  stating the concept was to make the cleaning product ' surfactant free ' which they associate with resoling in carpet .
problem there is there are many types of surfactant , they dont mention which ones they think contribute to re soiling nor do they offer any proof or reference to studies on the subject .  
But the product ( which somewhere along the line became known  as micro splitter in this country , we now know is just common sodium tripolyphosphate )   also seems to an attempt by the original manufacture to make a cleaning product which could be used multi surface across all areas of cleaning and could be marketed to a number of different types of cleaning . Also the advantage that it would be cheap to produce for the manufacturer as its just one detergent ingredient insted of for or five in a regular detergent mix .

 its hard to unravel and cut through the marketing bull at this stage to see what if any real merits the numerous eco and detergent free products on offer now have ...
they seen to copy each other when one comes up with an idea that sells ...
there is some real nonsence out there though ...  seen products described ' as containing natural ingredients '   but examine the ingredients and its just detergent with a squirt of ' natural lemongrass oil '
or they make a huge list of what the product doesn't contain as if its relevant  ...
latest addition iv seen to that on the woc and amtech products is  ...  ' bacteria free '     what next bubonic plague free or radiation free .

[john martin]

Richard I understood your post but just personally think a colloidal is not a suitable product for this problem thats all I was getting at. I have had customers only this week saying they have been called back to nursing homes where the product hasn't done what was required. I have even had them telling me it is their preferred Flea treatment .I sell exactly the same stuff myself so have no gripe with the product as long as its used appropriately.
As regards detergent free, this is a minefield isn't it. I think the general  consensus of a detergent is a soap type cleaner based on Alkylbenzenesulfonates or Quaternary Ammonium compounds. These are chemicals made from petrochemicals and other active ingredients some of which can be hazardous.
Products described as "detergent free" do not contain any of these substances. I think it is just a way of describing these products as there doesn't seem to be many other options which would have the same marketing clout.

Nothing like that used in modern carpet cleaning detergent products  ...  the most common surfactant iv seen is probably non ionic AE  - Alcohol ethoxylates

[Steve. Taylor]

Richard if you get a result cleaning laminate flooring with odour problems please post as I would like to know how you got on mate we have come across a few with odour problems and it is always the underlay/felt the flooring goes on.

Problem is laminate cheap stuff made from chip board slightly better quality HDF High density fibre board get it to wet and it blows when you take it up the smell hits you.  

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

You have to bear in mind that there are technical terms and marketing terms and the ones we hear are marketing terms , quite often made up by people with little technical knowledge.

Detergent which comes from Tergere, the Latin to clean is commonly used to describe products which are not soaps but all these products are surface active and contain surfactants.

The problem John is alluding to is the tendency to claim wide ranging 'properties' for 'magical' products, 'microslpitter' was another one. and it's a bit like Chinese whispers where the small claims are made by various 'experts' and the end result is completely distorted.

There are lot's of good products which work on different things and enzymes can be very effective, much more so than colloidials but there are asthma sensitisation issues.

Always best to ask a supplier of a whole range of chemicals as he has no axe to grind or dare I say it , an experienced CC of which there are several on here.

Cheers

Doug

[John Kelly]

Cheap laminate is made of compressed board/paper, don't think any part of it has ever seen a tree.
A lot of the odour issues on lifting are due to the fact that the laminate and underlay have been laid onto a concrete slab which is inherently damp. This creates an environment where all sorts of nasties flourish.

[Mike Roper]

Going back to Mike's thought on ozone- didn't Amtec have a machine which cleaned utilizing ozone way back (10-15yrs) ago ?
Mike

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Don't get that enzyme too hot or it doesn't work.

Shaun