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AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25392
Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« on: March 15, 2006, 11:02:28 pm »
One for all of you thinking about going wfp - with apologies to Ross for all railway inaccuracies!

I reckon that our railways should still be run with steam locomotives - much better looking, more romantic and glorious to see in action. (Bit like most of us chaps on this forum really! ;D)

Dirty smelly diesels no thanks!

Now lets think about it. You want to take the 7.30 train from Bristol to visit Sarah and Lizzie in South Wales - what's necessary? (Maybe even take a taxi to see the Chepstow chappies too!)

To get the steam loco ready you have to have a guy set the fire and light it at 4.00 am. He has to coax the fire into life, boil the water in the boiler to make steam. Does the engine need to replenish it's tender with tons of coal and thousands of gallons of water? And you need a fireman to put coal on the fire as you go along. The driver checks all is in order and opens the regulator.

The train leaves Bristol at 7.30, builds up speed as it heads down through the Severn tunnel (mind you you now have a wet scarf around your face because a steam engine belching out smoke and steam in a 4 mile long pipe is different to running it through the countryside on a spring day.) Coming up out of the tunnel is hard work - the coal has to be good, the fireman skilled, (in winter his face is hot from the fire and his back cold from the weather - in summer his back is hot and his face is boiling) the driver has to peer ahead along yards of boiler as smoke blasts into his vision depending on the wind and speed.

Speeds of 70 mph are reached downhill although forty to fifty is tops uphill - But the journey is done and less than an hour after leaving Bristol the train pulls into Newport where Bizzy and Sarah are waiting. They are enthralled at the magnificent engine as it chuffs in and happily ignore the smuts that get in their eyes and the grime on many of the surfaces in the station. It is now 8.10 am

It's taken three people (the firelighter, the fireman and the driver) at least to do this journey in about 40 minutes. And one of them had to be on duty at 4.00 am to light the fire and prepare the engine.

-------

Now let's go by Diesel (HST125)

Driver turns up at 7.15, gets in his nice warm cab. Taps the fuel gauge and checks all systems are OK - presses a button and the mighty engines come to life.  Pulling away at 7.30, his view ahead is clear and speed adjustments are made at the press of a pedal or the pull of a handle. (No smoke, no fireman, no wet scarf)

With a top speed available of well over 100 mph he thunders down the grade towards the Severn Tunnel and only pausing to observe speed restrictions his train thunders up the other side and draws into Newport at ten to eight. His passengers are not grimy and smoky from his exhaust, Sarah and Lizzy do not have to worry about looking unpresentable as they wait on the platform.

It's taken one man twenty minutes to cover the same journey - and although he misses the skills and sounds of steam, on a daily basis his work is far less demanding and far more enjoyable. (No smoke to block his vision - no boiler blocking his view - no searing heat from the firebox or driving rain from behind.)

------

I will always love bladework - but only as a refreshing change from wfp - because wfp is safer and more profitable and does the job in much less time.

Choo! Choo!
It's a game of three halves!

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2006, 11:05:14 pm »
Blimey Malc, all that getting ready and preparing things before you start - it's just like wfp!

Is that what you're saying, that the diesel is like trad where you just get up and go? :D

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25392
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2006, 11:06:53 pm »
Trust Squeaky to get derailed at the main point! ;D
It's a game of three halves!

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2006, 11:15:38 pm »
Come on Malc I'm right really, you're just trying to back me into a siding. ;D

Why is this not in the chat section....?!

preston powerblast

  • Posts: 445
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2006, 11:29:05 pm »
Steam i would have to say is more personal and romantic, I love the old traction engines.
But diesel is safer quicker and more cost effective.

No one is ever going to win this debate, so why not just agree to disagree.

But one thing we all have in common is that we are all in it to make a living and if there is a way to do it safer and more cost effective then we must go with the flow.

Today I was talking to a wc who has been doing the job for over 30 years and i guy whom I have the utmost respect for, he had his leg in plaster.
He told me he had fallen off the ladder some weeks ago and had now decided to call it a day and has handed the business over to his son.
we got talking about wfp and to my suprise he said it was a fantastic idea, but he would never have gone down that road as he reckons its too impersonal.
Me finks he just liked looking through the bedroom windows.

Paul Coleman

Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2006, 04:36:43 am »
Trust Squeaky to get derailed at the main point! ;D

Squeaky does have a point Malc   ;D
There is more background work to WFP than there is to trad.  However, the actual cleaning is usually faster with WFP (after you've set up the pole, hose etc and excluding first cleans).  In fact, on many jobs, it's a lot faster.

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25392
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2006, 05:19:12 pm »
OK - I accept that to build a diesel loco takes more ££££ and technology than with steam. But virtually no country in the world uses steam for its rail network services any more. Same with wfp over the coming years I reckon.

It's a game of three halves!

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2006, 05:25:09 pm »
But virtually no country in the world uses steam for its rail network services any more.
China. ;)

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25392
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2006, 05:28:46 pm »
And even they are changing fast! Diesels are replacing the mighty QJ class 2-10-2's on freight services as of last November - the writing is on the wall!
It's a game of three halves!

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2006, 05:39:43 pm »
Well if you look at my avatar I am wearing an anorak!

edd

  • Posts: 960
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2006, 08:56:54 pm »
i think the squeaky one should be thinkin about the real world where there is no risk of fallin off ladders my wfp (hot) is makin me so much money i have to slow down because its too quick .Now we have to work only a 3 half day week for the same money a lot less stress a better job and believe me no one waz harder than me to convince about wfp after 25 years the bloody hard way.Today waz the coldest yet here in shropshire but my good old HOT pole zipped through and still made us 35% more money lol EDD ps squeaky dont get too cold on your ladder with your old type what is it o yes a squeegee..pps squeaky if you are really cold you can come and hold my hot hose for a price lol edd

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2006, 09:42:34 pm »
All I can say Edd is you must have been pretty slow with a squeegee if you're so much quicker now.
I've raced against plenty of wfp'ers on various houses and I've never been beaten.
Could you beat Terry Burrows? No, I thought not....

Anyway this isn't a debating thread, I don't recall starting this one folks.... ::)
If you want to rave about your brush-on-a-stick there's other threads for it.

Sorry if my tone sounds like I'm getting funny, but I've heard it all before. :)
Oh, and no I haven't been cold lately. ;)

geoffreyspecht

  • Posts: 485
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2006, 11:10:23 pm »
ive decided to move over to diesel.got me self a brush on a stick with water spouting out of it at last.just keep running out of sream these days

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2006, 11:35:56 pm »
ive decided to move over to diesel.got me self a brush on a stick with water spouting out of it at last.just keep running out of sream these days
You should try steam, it's better than sream. ;D

geoffreyspecht

  • Posts: 485
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2006, 11:43:04 pm »
we all make mistakes streaky clean

matt-b

  • Posts: 4
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2006, 11:49:07 am »
I'm new to this game, starting a traditional round in the next few weeks. The way I look at it is this: Would you rather your car was cleaned buy hand using traditional techniques or cleaned by a guy with a 12 foot pole and left to drip dry? Which method, as a paying customer, would you prefer?

If steam trains where still in use, as fast as diesels from A-B, and tickets cost the same, then I bet that more people would choose steam.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2006, 12:27:33 pm »
...and a big welcome to Matt B!
I like the car wash observation. ;)


Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2006, 03:30:54 pm »
...and a big welcome to Matt B!
I like the car wash observation. ;)


Imagine you were the owner of the car wash business that left the cars wet, yet you were earning loads of cash more than before and working less hours too.


Morph

Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2006, 04:23:19 pm »
...and a big welcome to Matt B!
I like the car wash observation. ;)


Imagine you were the owner of the car wash business that left the cars wet, yet you were earning loads of cash more than before and working less hours too.



I like the car wash business observation ;)

I use wfp to wash my car and van.  Both done in 15 minutes, drip dry, no spots, gleaming glass.  Done so quick, back inside for a cuppa, and if I'm in the mood wax them properly too! ;)

matt-b

  • Posts: 4
Re: Steam vs. Diesel (A wfp analogy)
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2006, 05:06:50 pm »

Sooner or later the wfp bubble will burst.

Let's say that you used to make 20 quid an hour by cleaning 2-3 houses and now with wfp you make 30 by doing 4-5, great.

But a new kid on the block will think that doing 4-5 houses for 20 or even 15 quid is a very good living.

More people will be attracted to window cleaning than before because the fear of heights or "danger" aspect of traditional window cleaning is no longer an issue for them.

So make hay while the sun shines wfp guy's, when you start to drive around in a flash new van more people will think " hey, I could do that, these guys must make a fortune, it looks so easy......"

when they used to say "you won't catch me up a ladder".

Just my honest opinion, I used to make big bucks in data cabling, but more and more  people jumped on the bandwagon and just drove down the hourly rate and I had to end up working abroad to maintain my income/wife/kids/dog/etc.

matt-b

PS Thanks for the welcome squeaky 8)