[chris scott]

Chris

! The guy is a skilled tile fixer as am I. Who mentioned wet substrate? The issue here was not of his making but that is irrelevant and has no bearing on the sealing problem I set.  We can take it more in depth if you want provided you understand tile fixing on ufh and decoupling membranes. If not it's pointless me explaining it to you.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

Decoupling membrane ...I thought they were to allow movement in floors due to factors such as thermal expansion due to things such as under floor heating?

Whose  fault was it did not dry? The lady who supplied the product or the man who applied it.
I am confused.
You are not wasting your time explaining to me ...I love to learn.

[Roger Oakley]

Roger

Your welcome! You could also use the prize as a discount of your Rocky in the New Year if you want?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

That sound's like a plan Kevin 

[B Bailey]

Well done Roger.

[BDCS]

The best time to wash a van is in the pouring rain, no pre wet and saves a pure water rinse. I don't use the slovac washes out of principle and before the tree huggers rant its because I'm against ecomic migration and not because they smell 

[Kev Martin]

Chris

! The guy is a skilled tile fixer as am I. Who mentioned wet substrate? The issue here was not of his making but that is irrelevant and has no bearing on the sealing problem I set.  We can take it more in depth if you want provided you understand tile fixing on ufh and decoupling membranes. If not it's pointless me explaining it to you.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

Decoupling membrane ...I thought they were to allow movement in floors due to factors such as thermal expansion due to things such as under floor heating?

Whose  fault was it did not dry? The lady who supplied the product or the man who applied it.
I am confused.
You are not wasting your time explaining to me ...I love to learn.

Chris

Who said it did not dry?
Why are you continually questioning the Tilers skills?  I have already told you he is highly skilled!  There were underlying reasons why he was forced into doing something he didn't want to do!  If you want me to talk you through laying UFH, Thermal Boards, Decoupling Membranes, PTB Adhesives, Commissioning Underfloor Heating correctly I will.  Pop down for 3-4 days and I will take you through it step by step!  I will teach you about Fluropolymers, New reach regulations coming into effect in January 2015 regarding sealers, new commodity coding etc etc!  How much time have you got?  Tell me what you want to learn and I will structure and price up a course to suit you on a one to one basis.

Call me in the morning to arrange it if you like.  What i don't have is the time or the inclination to write a book on the reasons the Fixer did what he did and why

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[chris scott]

Quote " Tell me what you want to learn and I will structure and price up a course to suit you on a one to one basis."

Thank you for the offer but I work only outside so really the in and outs of underfloor heating etc are of no interest to me .
I do have a question though.... If it was applied by a pro and dryed why did the sealer not bead ?


Quote "What i don't have is the time or the inclination to write a book on the reasons the Fixer did what he did and why"

I feel you should as it was you who set the competition so I feel you should give a satisfactory answer . You state it was not the tilers to blame....I assume then the client was at fault?

 

[Kev Martin]

Because it was through several contributing factors that caused the problem as I have already explained.  If you also believe that if water beads on a floor it is sealed you are under a serious misaprehension!  I can make a floor bead with a can of  Mr Sheen if you want me to but it doesn't mean it is sealed.  I can seal a piece of kitchen roll with one of my sealers and you won't be able to get Coca Cola to go through it even if you leave it on there for 24 hours.  There is sealing and sealing correctly believe me beading is often just a gimmick not proof that a surface is sealed.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[chris scott]

Because it was through several contributing factors that caused the problem as I have already explained.  If you also believe that if water beads on a floor it is sealed you are under a serious misaprehension!  I can make a floor bead with a can of  Mr Sheen if you want me to but it doesn't mean it is sealed.  I can seal a piece of kitchen roll with one of my sealers and you won't be able to get Coca Cola to go through it even if you leave it on there for 24 hours.  There is sealing and sealing correctly believe me beading is often just a gimmick not proof that a surface is sealed.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

Just run through the contributing factors with me again...I am a bit slow.

The romans used Olive oil to seal their stone....so you could use Mr Sheen it would afford some protection to the stone but there are better products available.

[Rob Hall]

Just want to add my 2-pennath about De-coupling membranes...

Schluter Ditra matting was originally introduced to allow Tile Fixers to tile onto 'Green' concrete. It is only in the last 'few' years that its uses have expanded to include Under Floor Heating.

And...in my opinion, it is brilliant.

[Kev Martin]

Chris

I am not going through it again read the whole post and switch your selective reading mode off.

Romans did indeed seal stone with  Olive Oil until they realised very quickly that it didn't last long, stained the stone and attracted dirt very quickly as it broke down!  There again we used to start cars with starting handles, then keys and now lots of cars are keyless so what is your point?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd

[chris scott]

I keep reading the whole post  . The tiler is at fault .    You tell me this was not the problem yet you cannot give me straight answer.

[Kev Martin]

I keep reading the whole post  . The tiler is at fault .    You tell me this was not the problem yet you cannot give me straight answer.

How many times do you want me to tell you Chris try and learn to accept what people say. The tiler wasn't at fault! The conservatory was just part of a £17k job. He wanted to commission the UFH over a three week period correctly and then finish sealing. She wanted it sealing first so she could use it over Xmas and she told him she would commission the UFH system herself. If he hadn't done it her way he wouldn't have got paid so he warned her then did it her way. That's why he couldn't be added with her because she paid a pro to do a job and then started telling him how to do it. I will tell you something else as well for free the tiles will crack next because there is no way she will commission the heating properly either.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[BDCS]

I never understood the question 

[chris scott]

Right final shot at this,
Paving laid, (pre-sealed which should make no difference)  then grouted.
He didn't leave enough time for the medium used to lay the paving to dry, (Limestone wicking up moisture) then grouted so again not enough time for the grouting to cure before starting to seal the paving, plus with the over kill of applying coat upon coat of sealer the whole area is saturated and not drying. Also the temperatures to low to seal anyway, with it being a conservatory to cold maybe ?Also maybe not taking off any excess sealer (pooling) so all leading to a fail?

Even if this is not the right answer, tell us the bloody answer 

So it was too cold to seal...everthing else you could disregard?

[Kev Martin]

Chris

I bet you were one of the annoying little kids at the back of the class weren't you?  "But Miss" "But Miss"


Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[Roger Oakley]

Right final shot at this,
Paving laid, (pre-sealed which should make no difference)  then grouted.
He didn't leave enough time for the medium used to lay the paving to dry, (Limestone wicking up moisture) then grouted so again not enough time for the grouting to cure before starting to seal the paving, plus with the over kill of applying coat upon coat of sealer the whole area is saturated and not drying. Also the temperatures to low to seal anyway, with it being a conservatory to cold maybe ?Also maybe not taking off any excess sealer (pooling) so all leading to a fail?

Even if this is not the right answer, tell us the bloody answer 

So it was too cold to seal...everthing else you could disregard?

Chris if that is aimed at me then Yes, to cold and damp paving/tiles both add up to a failure, then the overkill of sealer. Chris you will have seen this loads of times, and on exterior paving so why is this now going round & round in circles  

[chris scott]

Right final shot at this,
Paving laid, (pre-sealed which should make no difference)  then grouted.
He didn't leave enough time for the medium used to lay the paving to dry, (Limestone wicking up moisture) then grouted so again not enough time for the grouting to cure before starting to seal the paving, plus with the over kill of applying coat upon coat of sealer the whole area is saturated and not drying. Also the temperatures to low to seal anyway, with it being a conservatory to cold maybe ?Also maybe not taking off any excess sealer (pooling) so all leading to a fail?

Even if this is not the right answer, tell us the bloody answer  

So it was too cold to seal...everthing else you could disregard?

Chris if that is aimed at me then Yes, to cold and damp paving/tiles both add up to a failure, then the overkill of sealer. Chris you will have seen this loads of times, and on exterior paving so why is this now going round & round in circles  

Roger not aimed at you at all.
The substrate was dry...according to Kevin
Pre-sealing with an impregnator does what exactly...
The correct way to apply  a impregnating sealer is wet on wet till you are moping up the surplus...so over application is virtually impossible and would not hinder curing.
So that only leaves us with it being to cold.

The prize winning question was
Quote "What do you think went wrong or he did wrong?"
 The answer is
"Why it went wrong is it was to cold to seal and what he did wrong was he allowed himself to be bullied by the homeowner".
 

[Kev Martin]

The substrate was dry...according to Kevin                           Was it?
Pre-sealing with an impregnator does what exactly...            It helps on grout clean up and can stop grout causing picture framing!!!

The correct way to apply  a impregnating sealer is wet on wet till you are moping up the surplus...so over application is virtually impossible and would not hinder curing.  Where did you learn that? Or who says that?

So that only leaves us with it being to cold.  Yes the ambient temeperature does affect sealer as does too many applications too soon after each other!!!

The prize winning question was
Quote "What do you think went wrong or he did wrong?"
 The answer is
"Why it went wrong is it was to cold to seal and what he did wrong was he allowed himself to be bullied by the homeowner".  I would have allowed the homeowner to do what thewy wanted as well if I thought I was'nt going to get paid that amount of money!!!!

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[chris scott]

The substrate was dry...according to Kevin                           Was it?
Pre-sealing with an impregnator does what exactly...            It helps on grout clean up and can stop grout causing picture framing!!!

The correct way to apply  a impregnating sealer is wet on wet till you are moping up the surplus...so over application is virtually impossible and would not hinder curing.  Where did you learn that? Or who says that?

So that only leaves us with it being to cold.  Yes the ambient temeperature does affect sealer as does too many applications too soon after each other!!!

The prize winning question was
Quote "What do you think went wrong or he did wrong?"
 The answer is
"Why it went wrong is it was to cold to seal and what he did wrong was he allowed himself to be bullied by the homeowner".  I would have allowed the homeowner to do what thewy wanted as well if I thought I was'nt going to get paid that amount of money!!!!

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

I took it from this then you implied the substrate was dry hence Quote yourself "Who mentioned wet substrate?"

Manufacturers stipulate to apply "wet on wet " hence quote yourself "We all know most sealer manufacturers say you can reapply a second coat within a few hours but the fact is this is marketing bullpoop the sealer manufacturers put this because the others do. "  

Quote yourself "Yes the ambient temperature does affect sealer as does too many applications too soon after each other"
 Using an impregnating sealer properly it is impossible to apply to much...so the length of time it takes to dry(if you have applied the correct amount) is not governed by how many applications . Each substrate will absorb enough sealer to saturation point and drying time will vary. You cant apply a "Thin layer " so it drys quickly otherwise it will repel the next "thin Layer". It's not paint!

[Kev Martin]

Chris

I have had enough of your endless banter now!  Please post the set of instructions for applying an impregnating sealer you are referring to and state which manufacterer stipulates this method of application

Kev Martin
Tilling Logistics Ltd