[Richy L]

sorry for not posting for a while I went out for the evening.

Thanks everyone for your oppinions. I think it does sound worth while, but I also think it would of benifit for me to start canvasing some harder to reach houses. This way I can make the most out of wfp, therefore make more money.

Thanks again

Richy

[pjulk]

I changed over because its so much safer.
That was a year ago well will be next month
I still do some traditional but only because of dodgy frames or its quite away from the van and would need a ladder also for flat roof.

I love WFP i use an omnitrolly.
When i got it i was a bit sceptical about it but nearly a year on im glad i made the change.
Now getting a van mount also so i will use one my son will use the other.

Paul

[Richy L]

hey paul, I was just wondering, do you clean big houses or is is mostly small houses? It's just, as I mentioned earlier, my round is made up of mostly small houses. If I was cleaning houses worth £30 plus then I could see the benifits, but my customers are usually only about £7 on average.

[neil100]

Squeaks,

Its human nature to be more critical of what other people do then it is to be critical of ourselves.

For instance how good are you as a w/cleaner?

I know how good I am as a w/cleaner Trad and Wfp, (Thats years and years of customers telling me how good I am and the people who have worked with me)Even though I have not been wfp for very long. Bur wfp can do a very good job of the glass and it can also do a bad job.

I once did A builders clean of an hotel that had a £1,000,500.00 plus refurbisment inside and out. The Manager watched me like an hawk,He only asked me to do them cos I was recommended to him. When doing the Bar Lounge windows he stood looking at a window for 15mins that I had done both sides of. The sun was shinning on them so I went across and said Are you trying to pick fault with my work? No, No I have never seen glass so clean, its just I am looking and my brain is telling me the builders have taken the glass out the harder I look the more certain I am that theirs no glass there. I want to touch the glass just to be sure my mind is not playing tricks on me. He spent hours that day looking at that window and was so impressed they gave me the contract to clean them.

The story illustrates the standards I set myself. So wfp Has to be very very good for me to use it.I am only a begginer with it but Beleive you me it works, I am getting a lot of possitive feed back from customers. And I do ask the very fussy ones to give me an honest opinion because they will be my greatest critics. I have not had one complaint yet and I know how long it took me to master trad w/c.

Nel.

[pjulk]

Most of the house's i clean are 3 and 4 bed semi's.
Got some terrace house but getting rid of slowly.
Most of my houses are around the £12 - £15 mark

Paul

[williamx]

Why should I be able to do it any better?

Rog

wfp cleaning is as good as trad methods, that is a fact, I clean every day and I don't have a problem, which hasn't got a logical reason why its not working correctly.

There are thousands of trad cleaners in this country, while some are ok, there are quite a few who do sub standard work, the same applies to wfp, some are competant while others are not.

When you first started window cleaning, were you perfect from the start or did you make mistakes, which you have learned from, the same applies to wfp cleaning.

I repeat you can clean a window with a wfp and get the same result as an experenced and competant cleaner.

[mark6765]

Trad verses wfp is getting boreing now.
I rarely read through it all like i used to.
I would like to add my reasons for changeing tho.

MONEY.

I honestly take double what i used to in the same time on all houses, except where i have access problems.
and im temted to leave these or just do fronts.
 

[g_griffin]

Eventually, wfp will be more prevalent than trad. Being quicker it will keep prices lower which is what usually counts.

 There will still be ladder users,charging more, but not as many.

                            Gerry.

[Tim Morton]

Hi Leeksons, I've just started using wfp and most of my domestic round are £7.00 detached houses. This morning I did all that I'd normally do and got 2 more houses done before lunch, and that was doing the 1st clean with wfp!
I was also doing a factory on monday, did all the outsides in 3hrs, used to take me 4.5hrs, and this was the very 1st time of using wfp.
I'd say go for it, i went for it because i figured i was climbing a ladder 20,000 times a year, and didnt want to risk it any more than i have to.
I figure wfp is just another tool in my toolbox, it has it's benefits, but I'll still carry my ladders and squeegy.
Hope this helps, Tim

[JohnL]

Neil,  I find your friends Dads sons figures hard to believe and when we talk figures your investment returns to you an extra £77 per week. Not convincing sir.

However I am not knocking the way or the means by which people work. Giving figures on how much you can earn and how much extra you can earn using WFP only relates to those individuals, the areas they work, the type of work they tackle and the customers they serve, so you have to analise your round, your potential customers and work to the best way to suit you.

So come on guys, work the best way to suit you whether it be WFP or Trad and please dont play the health card. If you are sensible you can work Trad, but take all the necessary precautions, follow the guidelines and dont be stupid enough to go 20 - 30 feet up a ladder - thats only asking for trouble and is irresponsible. If you can afford WFP and your area could support it then invest and enjoy the rewards.

JohnL

[Moderator David@stives]

The health card

That is the biggest single factor for me and many others

[P @ F]

Im not really sure why i went wfp !
Had a few falls in my time , one very nasty 3 story ladder slip away and landed on my head , came away with a bruise on my knee is all !
I have been rather lucky , i suppose what made me do it in the end was this site , all the stories of untold riches made me think .
I can see SQUEAKS point of view completely , but then i can see all others too!
TRUE ... it can be more lucrative running in with your pole , but there are also houses i do that i know for sure that i can take a ladder in and get the job done quicker ,with less strain on my back aswell .... BUT ..... i choose not to !
Laziness ,  who knows , what i do know is wfp has as many downsides as ladder work , i spend too much time sorting my gear out , when you think you are sorted , you find more probs , i just added a trolley system to the van mount and i am asking myself why did i do that ?.......... I get home and fill all the tanks and barrells and charge the batteries ...........SQUEAKY  is sat at home with his feet up !
But it is true , i make a lot more money than i did on a ladder , but i also believe that it hinges on what sort of round you have , how sensible you are with your ladders and how good you are with a squeegee ...
WFP works for me , but it might not for you , only one way to find out , at least you can sell it to SQUEAKY if you dont like it ........ 

  Rich   P @ F 

[Paul Coleman]

The average price for a house on my round is only about £7.00p, and I am only really cleaning 3 bedroom houses. I can usually clean about 4 houses an hour on my own, so if I do invest in the reach and wash system, do you think I will be able to increase my income?

Richy

Richy,

We used to have a member here called UBA1 and he claimed he could clean five standard semis in an hour using ladders.

Many didn't believe him as that works out at 12 minutes per house and given that an average house has 9 to 12 windows, that works out as under a minute a window.

I personally thought he was stretching the truth a 'little'; and even if he could; maintaining that pace hour after hour would almost be superhuman.

I actually travelled from Gatwick up to his neck of the woods and spent half a day working with him.  If I hadn't been with him, he can indeed  work at the quoted speed.  He's pretty fit too (an ex - boxer I think) so I've no reason to think he couldn't have sustained that on a full day.  If they were lined up with no access problems, I could do 3 - 4 in an hour myself using trad.  My problem is that I wouldn't be able to sustain it.  I'm pretty unfit and and nudging 50.  For me, doing 3 - 4 an hour - every hour - using trad would do my back and shoulders in so I prefer to slow down a bit and plod along.

But he changed over to WFP.

Some properties are really quick to clean with a WFP; some are about the same; none that I can think of on my round are slower.

Not only that, with a WFP you can go for bigger and higher jobs and charge more per hour because you've less competition who'd be able to do the job.

This morning I was paid £98.00 for one-hour-fourty-five minutes work.  I could never have done this property using ladders (three-storey/large Georgian-windowed conservatory including roof).

On top of that I did another five standard houses and finished work by 1.30pm.  I really didn't start till 9.45 (after a Tesco's breakfast).  So I earned a decent amount for part-time work today.

My advice is to get a Shurflo backpack and see how you get on with it.

If you think you can earn more using ladders; then keep the Shurflo as another tool in your box.

Personally, I feel that if you are doing 4 semis an hour, WFP is unlikely to speed you up.  In fact, at first till you get used to it, it will probably slow you down.  The good stuff with WFP is about being able to do larger jobs IMO and doing them quicker too.  For instance, one of my better jobs earns me £32 in about 40 minutes.  When I've been around it another couple of times, I expect to trim that to 30 - 35 minutes  -  all without taking my feet off the ground as well.  That's the time from switching engine off to switching it on again after finishing.

[Paul Coleman]

These are all good points, thankyou. Do you find the wfp clean well? or do they leave marks on them. I've just heard that they can sometimes they do.

I've experienced problems on some jobs.  First cleans can be a bit dodgy on certain types of windows.  Some windows can leak water.  On 85 - 90% of my work it's been just fine though.  On many of the remaining 10 - 15%, I know that the job will improve as I get the first and second cleans out of the way.  Alas ! a few jobs will have to go though.  Some of this will be MY choice as I find that better access is needed for WFP.  It will take a while to re-jig my round to get it the way I want it but I believe it will be worth it in the end.  On the vast majority of jobs, the WFP cleans as well as (if not better than) the squeegee.

[gaza]

SQUEEKY : MY CUSTOMERS HAVE A DICKY FIT IIF THEY FIND A DEAD PIDGEON ON THEIR BACK LAWN,WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY FOUND A DEAD W/C?
SAFER,MOSTLY QUICKER,BETTER JOB,STAY CLEANER LONGER

  GAZA

[Sir Squeaky]

SQUEEKY : MY CUSTOMERS HAVE A DICKY FIT IIF THEY FIND A DEAD PIDGEON ON THEIR BACK LAWN,WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY FOUND A DEAD W/C?
SAFER,MOSTLY QUICKER,BETTER JOB,STAY CLEANER LONGER

  GAZA

Agreed (apart from the better job bit).
I don't do high ladder stuff. Only use 3rd piece on one or two in the whole month.
Don't take chanches, do funny angles, stretch or anything else....
Never bothered you for years I bet Gaza.

I don't think staying cleaner longer is a good thing.
My customers question if they really need doing yet anyway, any cleaner and they'd say "no thanks".

Also, as someone pointed out, while you're filling tanks, charging batteries, plugging this in and whatever.....I'm putting my feet up.
Now who's the mug?

Why are you still giving me this waffle anyway?
I'd stopped responding to this.
I'm just having to tell people the same things over and over.....yawn.

Rog.

[genesis_windows]

Should I change to water fed pole?


Yes. It could save your life.


Ian

and add to that you will earn more as you can clean more.
on a previous post i commented that i cleaned 30 + houses a day, some fronts only but most all round. i average a house every 6-10 mins and my round is very compact.a few people disputed it, but hey ho, its true.
i bought it off a chap who laddered it and it took him 5 days a week to do- i've nearly halved the time it takes to get round it and i wont be falling like he did, which is why the round was sold. safety and profit are greatly increased with wfp--but only if you are COMPETENT.
get trained up,get wealthier,get more time at home-get wfp

[Richy L]

If I buy the Shurflo backpack, how do I purify the water? I mean, I know how it work from a van, I was just wondering is it best to purify the water at home before going out to work, then carry just purified water around with you, or can you do it while you were working?Can anyone help?

[williamx]

DON'T EVER THINK ABOUT BUYING A WFP SYSTEM, BECAUSE IF YOU DO THEN THE FOLLOWING IS LIABLE TO HAPPEN TO YOU.

1  You will be able to earn more money

2  You will be able to increase the amount of work that you do and earn more money

3  You will be able to expand and have workers who earn YOU more money

4  You will be able to let these cleaners cover your work so you don't have to do it and you will still earn more money

5  You will never fall from a height and injury or even kill yourself.  Remember that you are only 1 mistake away from serious injury or death using LADDERS.

6  You will be able to now clean them windows that are impossible to clean from a ladder, and you can charge extra for this and again you make more money.

SO REMEMBER THAT USING A WFP SYSTEM WILL ONLY MEAN THAT YOU MIGHT LIVE LONGER AND WILL MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU WOULD EVER DO ON A LADDER.

So when ever you next go to a trade show and you see these brightly coloured trolleys and the great big shiny static units that have flashing lights and dials with sparkling crome.  With their poles which seem to reach upto the sky and touch the clouds and the salesman come up to you and says "do you want one".

Remenber what you need to do.

Which is to follow Squeeky and run from the room shouting Noooooooooooooo

[genesis_windows]

If I buy the Shurflo backpack, how do I purify the water? I mean, I know how it work from a van, I was just wondering is it best to purify the water at home before going out to work, then carry just purified water around with you, or can you do it while you were working?Can anyone help?

not sure mate as i've never used one, but i know that people on here have and do, so if we can hopefully get back ON TOPIC and get you some answers maybe then you'll get the help you need................................