An interesting start to the thread however we all got lost, but that is part of the beauty of all this, its just word association at a different level. For the record I am a newbie and as I am sure you are aware by now I am not scared to post. Although I do understand to a degree about the bickering it is indeed just that that a lot can be learnt from each other. Sometimes it gets personal and as wrong as it is I will defend to the hilt if I have made a statement and it is attacked. An opinion is always open for discussion and should be discussed but your point is correct and we should be carful in how we do it..... I have noticed (off the subject) that the better idea that someone has or the better they are doing the more they appear to be "had" at. ..... I was hoping to meet a few of the forum members at carpex to discuss many of the topics from on here and to just meet fellow cleaners, however I have had a death in the family and so will not be able to attend. But I already have the best truck mount and portable anyway so why do I need to attend..... Go on you have to laugh, best, Dave.