This is an advertisement
Interested In Advertising? | Contact Us Here

Warning!

 

Welcome to Clean It Up; the UK`s largest cleaning forum with over 34,000 members

 

Please login or register to post and reply to topics.      

 

Forgot your password? Click here

Tom-01

  • Posts: 1348
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2013, 11:18:02 pm »
i am a sole trader and not VAT registered and have leased from the start from

http://www.nationwidevehiclecontracts.co.uk/

it means i got a new reliable vehicle for min cost upfront and then could invest the money saved into building up a business.

the money i can invest into advertising each month will earn me more than money saved on purchasing.  this is the theory.  it is how big business tend to do things so their cash is not tied up in depreciating liabilities.


Richard

Are the leasing company ok with the van being sign written with the interior floor space spray coat protected and tanks bolted to the chassis?

Thanks
Tom

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3952
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2013, 11:40:05 pm »
I'm not sure on the terminology but...
I had c. £20k to spend on a new van.
After much searching I found what I wanted.
Renault Trafic. I forget the cash price, but it was much less than £20k.
Chatting to the sales guy I got 'sold' to.
Pleased with being sold to though.
Px my old van, they have me £2k-more than fair.
Used that as the deposit.
Long and short I pay £250 a month. 60 payments.
£15k total + £2k for my old van.
This worked out, on average, that I pay £17 per month for the finance.
Which means its cost me a grand to finance it.
But, after a few difficult years a while back, I had a 'cushion' on £20k just in case.

I can see the benefit of leasing but it's not for me.
If something goes wrong and I can't afford to make the payments, I've still got the money sitting in the bank.
If I want to sell the van-I can.
I drive it nicely, cause it's mine.
Ask yourself, if you've ever had a hire car or van, how did you drive it?
I wasn't careful. Not as much as I am with my own.

OP-if you're driving something now I assume you own, see about chopping it in-bet you get £2k-seems to be a standard price...
Then how much more would it cost to own the van at the end compared to paying £x each month then giving it back?
I'd bet it ain't much different.

Sorry DD but how do you work out you pay £17 per month interest if you can't remember the cash price?

I didn't just work it out. That's what it worked out to on the day.
The £17 per month stuck in my mind. The cash price didn't.
They gave you 2 grand more than fair for your part exchange and got you finance that you only pay £1000 interest over 5 years on a loan of I am guessing £14 000 if I have read your post correctly. Is the garage still in business?

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2013, 11:44:02 pm »
i am a sole trader and not VAT registered and have leased from the start from

http://www.nationwidevehiclecontracts.co.uk/

it means i got a new reliable vehicle for min cost upfront and then could invest the money saved into building up a business.

the money i can invest into advertising each month will earn me more than money saved on purchasing.  this is the theory.  it is how big business tend to do things so their cash is not tied up in depreciating liabilities.


Richard

Are the leasing company ok with the van being sign written with the interior floor space spray coat protected and tanks bolted to the chassis?

Thanks
Tom


Hi Tom,

Yes they are.

It all has to be removed of course when you finish and you'll get charged for damages.
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Tom-01

  • Posts: 1348
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2013, 11:51:13 pm »
That's quite cool. Won't let any employees near it then!

What's the difference between contract hire and finance lease? Which one do you do, and why?

Thanks
Tom

PoleKing

  • Posts: 8974
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2013, 06:35:27 am »
I'm not sure on the terminology but...
I had c. £20k to spend on a new van.
After much searching I found what I wanted.
Renault Trafic. I forget the cash price, but it was much less than £20k.
Chatting to the sales guy I got 'sold' to.
Pleased with being sold to though.
Px my old van, they have me £2k-more than fair.
Used that as the deposit.
Long and short I pay £250 a month. 60 payments.
£15k total + £2k for my old van.
This worked out, on average, that I pay £17 per month for the finance.
Which means its cost me a grand to finance it.
But, after a few difficult years a while back, I had a 'cushion' on £20k just in case.

I can see the benefit of leasing but it's not for me.
If something goes wrong and I can't afford to make the payments, I've still got the money sitting in the bank.
If I want to sell the van-I can.
I drive it nicely, cause it's mine.
Ask yourself, if you've ever had a hire car or van, how did you drive it?
I wasn't careful. Not as much as I am with my own.

OP-if you're driving something now I assume you own, see about chopping it in-bet you get £2k-seems to be a standard price...
Then how much more would it cost to own the van at the end compared to paying £x each month then giving it back?
I'd bet it ain't much different.

Sorry DD but how do you work out you pay £17 per month interest if you can't remember the cash price?

I didn't just work it out. That's what it worked out to on the day.
The £17 per month stuck in my mind. The cash price didn't.
They gave you 2 grand more than fair for your part exchange and got you finance that you only pay £1000 interest over 5 years on a loan of I am guessing £14 000 if I have read your post correctly. Is the garage still in business?

That's it exactly.
Just checked, yeah, they're still going.
Harratts Renault Pontefract.
Just remembered, I had to put £400 down on the day too(+ my old van) but that included £150(?) for ply lining.
I remember thinking I should've haggled on that a bit harder but still felt like if got a good deal.

This is only speculative but I bought it in January, perhaps a quiet month.
Rang up, said I wanted it ASAP, as in can I collect tomorrow.
That may have had some bearing.
www.LanesWindowCleaning.com

It's just the internet. Try not to worry.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2013, 07:22:23 am »
That's quite cool. Won't let any employees near it then!

What's the difference between contract hire and finance lease? Which one do you do, and why?

Thanks
Tom

Hi Tom,

I;m not sure what the differences are to be honest.

Spruce seems to know the ins and outs more than me. 

I paid an upfront payment of about £800, and monthly £200 ish in a 5 yr deal.

Next time i'll most likely take a 3 yr deal.  My vans not 3.5 yrs old and things are starting to go wrong with the engine etc.  The beauty of leasing is that you dont need the bother of having an older vehicle and repairs

R
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

PoleKing

  • Posts: 8974
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2013, 07:46:40 am »
That's quite cool. Won't let any employees near it then!

What's the difference between contract hire and finance lease? Which one do you do, and why?

Thanks
Tom

Hi Tom,

I;m not sure what the differences are to be honest.

Spruce seems to know the ins and outs more than me. 

I paid an upfront payment of about £800, and monthly £200 ish in a 5 yr deal.

Next time i'll most likely take a 3 yr deal.  My vans not 3.5 yrs old and things are starting to go wrong with the engine etc.  The beauty of leasing is that you dont need the bother of having an older vehicle and repairs

R

Sorry if you've put this earlier-what van have you got Richard?
www.LanesWindowCleaning.com

It's just the internet. Try not to worry.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2013, 07:58:04 am »
That's quite cool. Won't let any employees near it then!

What's the difference between contract hire and finance lease? Which one do you do, and why?

Thanks
Tom

Hi Tom,

I;m not sure what the differences are to be honest.

Spruce seems to know the ins and outs more than me. 

I paid an upfront payment of about £800, and monthly £200 ish in a 5 yr deal.

Next time i'll most likely take a 3 yr deal.  My vans not 3.5 yrs old and things are starting to go wrong with the engine etc.  The beauty of leasing is that you dont need the bother of having an older vehicle and repairs

R

Sorry if you've put this earlier-what van have you got Richard?

Vauxhall Vivaro SWB
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25383
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2013, 08:24:42 am »
I leased my Doblo from new in 2006.

I bought my iload new in 2012

Why?

I was more ragged-arsed in 2006 - hand to mouth having just gone wfp out of my car. Car got written off and I got £500 for it! I needed to work, realised that a lot of my probs were from "tired vehicles" didn't want to use every bit of capital I had saved and lease the Doblo with about £600 down and £180 a month.

I had reliability, a vehicle that did 40mpg instead of 22mpg and a van with a 400L tank - so giving me at least an hour extra per working day of not filling and lifting barrels and trolley and going back for more water.

At the end of the lease I paid the balloon (£2k) and bought out the lease (£50) and benefitted from all costs going against tax. Still got the van which Dan the Man has use of.

Hyundai.

Decided I would loan and own through the bank. Bank showed me that a 15K overdraft was cheaper than a 15K loan if I paid it off within a year. Which I did.

(But my instinct is to loan and own rather than lease - but leasing got me rolling when I was too scared to use all my savings and still had a mortgage to pay.)
It's a game of three halves!

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2013, 08:47:04 am »
Does anyone do it here...can anyone explain it to me how it works, wheres best to go etc?

I know very little about it. Thanks in advance


First question we would ask in the trade is why you want to know this.

In general, most small operators who asked about leasing had a poor credit history, ccj's etc. and thought that no credit checks were made with leasing deals and an easy way of getting a new van.
Because credit checks are made, the majority of applications from small businesses, ie., sole traders were rejected, especially when the last 6 months of bank statements didn't tally with their 'healthy' business state indicated on the application form.

Others felt that they could own a van with a very small initial deposit and others where drawn in by the small weekly rental advertised all over the van on the forecourt or both.

I certainly am not inferring that this is the case with you, it was just our general experience.

IMHO vehicle finance in whatever form isn't in your favour, its in the bank/finance house's favour. You will never get something for nothing.

Contract Hire/Leasing deals are primarily put together using the same criteria.

A balloon at the end of the contract is a way of reducing your monthly payments, but it will put pressure on you if you haven't the money saved up to pay it off. This will mean having to take out another loan to cover it. So your new van may end up to be 7 or 8 years old before you finish paying for it. Remember, the older your van is the harder it is to get back to owning a new one again, so we found it best to replace your van every 3 years or slightly earlier if you have a residual payment at the end.

Whilst everyone is different, sole traders don't generally 'warm' to the concept of paying a monthly rental out for a van for 3 or 4 years and at the end of the contract hand it back with nothing to show for it. I don't see the problem to be honest, because its depreciation in a different form.

Personally, I have a van that I own. I don't owe anything on it. If I can't work for some reason, then I don't have a monthly van rental to add to my worries. My van was worth £5000 3 years ago and probably worth £1500 today tops. That's depreciation.





Excellent comment Spruce, thank you for your feed back.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2013, 11:02:40 am »
That's quite cool. Won't let any employees near it then!

What's the difference between contract hire and finance lease? Which one do you do, and why?

Thanks
Tom

The difference between C/H and Finance Lease is who takes the risk at the end of the contract.

With C/H the finance house takes the risk.

With a Finance lease you take the risk. It is particularly popular with van drivers as there are no damage re-charges levied by the finance house. There are also no mileage restrictions but over mileage will reflect on the vans value at time of resale.

The principal behind risk is what that vehicle is going to be worth at the end of the contract in 3 or 4 years time with a certain mileage on it.
Some may remember the situation in 1999/2000 when “Rip Off Britain” gained momentum with people able to import the same model cars and vans to UK spec cheaper from Europe than buying the same vehicle in Britain. Suddenly the finance markets were thrown into disarray here as the price of new cars and vans dropped. Citroen rebadged the ‘LX’ Xsara’s and Xantias to ‘Fortes’ and reduced the selling price. This had a knock on effect on the vehicle’s residual value.

I remember one instance a car came back off contract hire at that time with a residual value which was much higher than the retail price of the car second hand off a dealer’s forecourt. The finance house had to sell that vehicle at a loss as it was their risk. Had it been a Lease contract, the owner would have lost the money.  
 
Whilst financing is a very personal thing, I would tend toward a Finance Lease arrangement with no balloon payment at the end. That way you will be able to replace your van and put the full trade-in value toward the deposit on the next van or keep the van but continue to lease it under a secondary rental scheme called a peppercorn rental. (In our day the rental would be around 1 monthly payment a year).

Finance houses didn’t like you to peppercorn rent your van they prefer you to buy a new van they can make money from. But a peppercorn rental allows you flexibility to continue to use your van with all your equipment bolted down inside at a low annual cost.
 
As has been noted by others, the benefit of having a residual does give you more money available to spend expanding your business. But you need to be look at the implications of the balloon payment and be honest with yourself - can you afford it at the end of the day? I knew one chap who had a separate van account at the bank which he transferred a small amount of money into every month by direct debit. He didn't need to use it at the end of the day, so was a form of forced savings.

Under a true Finance Lease you are not allowed to own the van at the end of the contract. It has to be sold to a third party, which could be a family member not associated with your business. The finance house also take a small percentage of the sale price of that vehicle to ‘close the contract’ – usually around 2%.

With regard to bolting the tank through the chassis. On a Finance lease this isn’t an issue on return. However, I have asked our local MOT inspector how he would inspect a van at MOT. He says that in his judgement you have weaken the integrity of the van by doing this and he would fail the van. He suggested a better way was to buy high tensile ‘U’ Bolts that would go around the chassis rail, up through the floor and bolt onto the tank frame. He would also recommend a spreader plate under the ‘U’ bolts to spread the load over a greater section of the chassis rail.

On purchasing a van initially, I would carefully remove the ply lined floor, store it away and paint the metal base of the van floor with Protectakote. At the end of the contract I would remove all my stuff and put blank rubber grommets onto the holes I had drilled to secure the tank. I would then replace the original ply lined floor back into the van and screw it down with the screws that were originally used.

There are other forms of finance that copy a Finance Lease that do allow you a become the owner of the vehicle at the end of the contract. This type of lease is more like an HP with a leasing flavour.

My advise is to look around and ask questions about what this means for ME. And remember, haggle. Just because a deal is advertised as the deal of a life-time doesn't mean that it is. Just as you do with insurance, look around and get a number of quotes.


Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Tom-01

  • Posts: 1348
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2013, 12:00:49 pm »
Spruce,

Thanks very much for the info, exactly what I needed. Hypothetically if you were going to Contract Hire or Finance Lease would you go for the Finance Lease option?

I am seriously considering going for one of these options to get a second van on the road (I own a 55 plate Traffic) as the monthly payments would be affordable and I like the idea of basically having a good, reliable and new van - starting to get a few issues with the current van, nothing major just age related.

Great idea about storing the original ply and putting it back on, I will be Line-X spraying the floor and adding shelving units etc.

Is there always a final payment as well as the initial payment? And in either scenario is there the option to buy the van or send back and get another new one?

Working out the monthly payments over 3 years from what I've seen advertised it works out approx £9k over 3 years, so £3k per year - that's a pretty good deal to make sure you always have a reliable van and its a business cost anyway.

I have a very good accountant so I will have a chat with him about the money side of things.

Thanks again Spruce, top man! :)

Tom



Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2013, 04:56:44 pm »
Spruce,

Thanks very much for the info, exactly what I needed. Hypothetically if you were going to Contract Hire or Finance Lease would you go for the Finance Lease option?

I am seriously considering going for one of these options to get a second van on the road (I own a 55 plate Traffic) as the monthly payments would be affordable and I like the idea of basically having a good, reliable and new van - starting to get a few issues with the current van, nothing major just age related.

Great idea about storing the original ply and putting it back on, I will be Line-X spraying the floor and adding shelving units etc.

Is there always a final payment as well as the initial payment? And in either scenario is there the option to buy the van or send back and get another new one?

Working out the monthly payments over 3 years from what I've seen advertised it works out approx £9k over 3 years, so £3k per year - that's a pretty good deal to make sure you always have a reliable van and its a business cost anyway.

I have a very good accountant so I will have a chat with him about the money side of things.

Thanks again Spruce, top man! :)

Tom




Personally I would go for the Finance lease option as it gives one more flexibility.

If you do minimal mileage a year, you may look at a Lease Purchase which gives you final owner ship of the vehicle. With a finance lease you already take the risk so having yourself as the owner is no greater risk and makes decision making less stressful at the end of the contract as you can just keep using the van until you are ready to replace it.

I would also try to make the final residual payment as low as possible. Get the salesman to give you different options to see what the payments are. Also if you are looking at a new Vivaro, talk to the fleet dept of the main Vauxhall agents. They do deals as well as the independant leasing companies.

Even if you want a Vivaro, check out the equivalent Renault and Nissan offers - they are the same van with a badge change. See what Ford have.
It gives you a lever to negotiate with.

Don't fall for the "This is the last day of a special never to be repeated offer that closes today so I need a go ahead now" BS.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

LWC

  • Posts: 6824
Re: Leasing vehicles
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2013, 07:53:17 pm »
Thank you all for all your replies and great info :)