[Andy Hogarth]

Hi all, I'm just trying to absorb as much info as I can on carpet cleaning at the moment and one thing I was warned about was shrinkage, Just wondering what the main reason for this is and is it usually just a rookie error, I have searched this forum on the subject and see that steverjc has had a shrinker and would like some pro tips on best ways to avoid this complication, ie how you gauge the amount water to apply etc.

I read the post on belgium wilton  too, Scary, what makes this particular carpet shrink so easy (I googled it and see it's a fair price but are they very common)

Thanks in advance

Andy

[carpetclean]

my advice is go on a course and learn as much as you can

[mark_roberts]

Shrinkage usually only happens when the backing gets wet on a jute backed carpet and usually only happens through operator error or a restoration clean when the customer would have been forwarned.

A belgium wilton by its fibre type is more prone to shrinkage but not very many about these days.

A good training course is a must even before you buy a machine.

Mark

[Andy Hogarth]

Thanks, I am planning to go on a course, I'm up north so the extracta one is prob likely.

Not yet though as cash (or lack of) is a major draw back, So I'm on here leeching you guys for as much info as I possibly can

I posted earlier in the week explaining I do small jobs for a few old dears and friends and worked with a cc a while back. with the uncertainty of my work at the moment I have decided to get off I my butt and put some effort into starting my own business instead of jumping job to job.

I have LOADS to learn, but I also have time and don't want to rush

Anyhows the shrinkage, When you say through operator error do you mean overwetting and do any other factors contribute ie temp of water

cheers

Andy

[Steve Chapman]

Hi andy,
yes i did have a bad shrinkage a while ago , i've been carpet cleaning ten years and had not seen anything like it, it was the dreaded belgian wilton and i saw it shrinking right in front of me, very scary, i'm still not sure the real problem, it certainly was not overwetting, but obviously to do with difference in fibre and backing, fortunately it was rectified by a very kind carpet fitter

hope i don't come across it again, but i'm sure it's one of those things that just can happen!

The extracta course is good and i use all there gear, friendly and helpful
cheers
steve

[tomh]

i have been on alltec's course & probley learnt more than i thought but think i'm  right in saying most carpets expand & shrink slightly as i would if i drank 2ltr's of anything problems are rare
mostly caused by water going straight to the natural cotton & jute backing as the face pile polypropylene fibres will not absorb anything so should only be lm or dry compound cleaned
wool belgium willtons can be wet cleaned as wool will take up water so gives more time
would spend a few hours in a carpet shop to identify these carpets & not worry to much
easy tell fibres apart from a burn test

[jinky230]

ok Andy came across this thread a bit late but if I can help then all the best for it

going on carpet cleaning courses can help but you ned to arrange the time and cash ,plus they are usually a good distance away,this does not solve your problem at the moment

carpets that shrink are usually wool carpets being soaked too much water at the edges and using too high a temperature.

what to do as follows identify the carpet with the burn test, go to a corner and pull out a fibre if it melts it is man made, if it crumbles in your hand or smells like hair burning then it is wool.
if it is man made fibre then no problem if it is wool reduce the water temperature down to 40 degrees usually luke warm to the touch

check all gripper board is holding the carpet and if not n
hammer in tacks half way down so they can be pulled out again, go for long tacks.

do the edge quickly with the hand tool probably about a foot wide, I say quickly as this is reducing the amount of water on the edge, then clean the whole carpet with the wand or powerbrush , using this procedure should stop shrinkage.

if you want to test for colour run then press some of your water solution on a tissue in a corner to check,
your solution is usually got a ph reading of about 10 as to get results you need an ankaline solution to remove dirt and if colour bleed is noticed then empty the tank and clean with an acid solution not as good a result but you leave the premises with no problems

acid solution under 7ph neutral 7 ph alkaline above 7ph


hope this helps you out as the problem is now and not when you can afford to go on a course
going around shops and looking at wool carpets will help to identify them but doing the burn test everytime will do the buss for you

drop out the cup of teas that customers offer to accomodate the time fitting tacks etc i usually say that i drink water only it is easily finished quick and you are not upsetting the customer
yours jinky
best of luck mate

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

Sorry i would have to disagree with that. The common cause of shrinkage is water getting through to the jute weave and thus the jute swells and due to the construction of the weave it all pulls tight causing the carpet to shrink.

This problem is very rare with a wool carpet as the wool will absorb most of the water before it gets to the jute weave material but polypropelene does not absorb any water and the water virtually runs straight to the backing thus causing the shrinkage!

Cheers Goron

[Andy Hogarth]

So would the wool carpet still shrink at a temperature of 40 deg if too much water was used or vice versa too hot temp little water??

Thanks loads for the reply Jinky info like this is always usefull

Gordon, Are you saying that the reason water gets through to the jute and swells is due to overwetting, Do you agree with using a lower temp??

[stevegunn]

You would be better off going on the Ncca or prochem course than the extracta course unless its changed in 6 years you don't learn that much

[John Kelly]

First of all make sure your equipment is up to the job. Its no good spraying solution onto the carpet if your machine can't suck it and the muck back up. 2 vacs are a basic requirement. Less than this you aren't cleaning the carpet properly and the excess moisture remaining can cause you problems.
As regards shrinkage, it is the backing which is the critical element. Carpets with "Action Backs" sort of a plastic mesh which is glued onto the back are never going to shrink. Woven carpets with jute or cotton in them are a big problem.You need to ensure that no water gets through on these. As mentioned wool absorbs water to 30% of it own volume. With decent equipment and technique this alone should be enough to prevent problems. However manmade fibres don't absorb water and it is easier for the water to travel straight through the pile to the backing.
As regards products for cleaning wool, there are plenty about, use one!

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

Gordon, Are you saying that the reason water gets through to the jute and swells is due to overwetting, Do you agree with using a lower temp??

I would say that if it was on a wool carpet then yes it would be due to over wetting! If it were on a polyprop then no not necessarily overwetting just a disadvantage of the carpet construction!

As for temp, the reason for lower temps on wool carpets is to prevent damaging the fibre as is the need for wool safe products, these have lower ph's than normal cleaners and do not contain any products that would be harmful on wool carpets like enzymes which can eat natural fibres

Cheers Goron

[Andy Hogarth]

If it were on a polyprop then no not necessarily overwetting just a disadvantage of the carpet construction!

So what would be the course of action to stop shrinking in this case, Checking correct fitting and carefull cleaning??

Andy

[John Kelly]

As mentioned earlier, decent equipment and technique are the fundamentals to prevent problems. Most polyprops are bomb proof but if it has a woven back it can shrink. This is why it is important to at least be able to identify carpet types. Get some basic info on different types then spend a day going around carpet shops looking at the different styles and construction. Ask them for some old samples. You'll soon learn what to watch for but proper training is worth having.

[jinky230]

hi guys dont scare the guy with science 95 per cent of carpet cleaning is straight forward. Andy go to carpet shop identify jute  backing and when you go into a house check the back of the carpet, lift a small corner if it is jute tell the customer that you can not put as much water on this type of carpet due to shrinkage.resulting in a pooorer cleaning result

we used to spray the carpet with degreaser, then use a rotary machine with damp soft cloth on the bottom to lift some of the traffic this way it reduced the amount of water we used and still got good result you can get a rotary cheap now adays, this was the way prochem did it back in the old days but then I cleaned carpets between 1985 and 1995 and now getting back into it

before you ask why I stopped we did several types of cleaning and the other types of cleaning was taking all my time, result had to stop the carpet to allow for leisure time

so come on guys keep it simple for the boy he only wants it explained in a laymans term how to go about cleaning this type of carpet when he comes across it, I am sure he will go on courses later but let him earn some cash first

am I right andy

your jinky