[kempy]

Anybody is entitled to do what they want , some have jobs on the side and play semi pro footy and get paid a few more .

My friend works 5 day week , and tops his income up on a Friday and Saturday night being a DJ .
MPs get loads of wages and expenses and many are also on the boards of other companies being directors getting paid.

Stand up and be counted for .

We should be standing Upto the ENERGY companies and fighting them not some gvt/public sector problem.

Everyone stop paying gas/electric for one month .
These are the persons the gvt should be attacking .

We're all paying double/treble for our energy now , and this is attacking our disposable income to spend within the economy .

[C o z y]

This argument of "If you think it's such a good deal, why don't you apply to be a fireman" is a weak one. If, as Gold pointed out, there are 150 people applying for each position, then what are the chances of getting the job?

As for "running into burning buildings" etc, it sounds like an everyday situation, and it's not. As I said earlier in this massive thread, I was in Belfast on an emergency tour in 77/78 on the first firemen's strike. I did enough bombing fires, arson scenes and road accidents, not in London, or Birmingham, but BELFAST. So it was a bit more work than what you'd expect from what the guys in UK do now I suspect.

Actual house fires were next to non existent. So the picture being painted from our heroic firemen saving lives on a daily basis and coming home covered in soot, blood and the remains of some poor moggy stuck up a tree, are a little over played IMO.

You're striking for a pension that some don't even earn in a year in this game. I support good causes, but this one doesn't really get me behind you Robert. I changed my mind after reading your posts.

In this thread, I think "When in a hole, stop digging" applies mate. Trying to defend a 4 on 4 off system against people who already work full time what you choose to do as a bonus, is a non starter, if you get my point?

Anyway, just thought that needed saying.

[AuRavelling79]

Welcome to the new world Robert. You forget that the 1992 and the 2006 schemes still remain relevant for those that joined before those dates. So a new 20 year old starting in 2014 has to work to 60 to get two thirds; well whoop-de-do. What will the general UK retirement age be in 2054 if we even recognise the system then? - 70?  And with shift patterns there is plenty of opportunity to do window cleaning, gardening, decorating or w-h-y.

Times change - out in the real world folk are retiring at 65 now; not 55 soon it will be 66 and then 67. Lucky me gets 66 my younger wife gets 67 when she was expecting 60 not long ago.

The picture is far bigger than the UK - this world only has so much resource to spread around - the B.R.I.C.K. economies (half the worlds population) and their people want their day in the sun as Europe and the USA did/are. And the average age is increasing. You cannot hope to be ring-fenced. The price you pay for living longer is working longer or harder. That's life.

If my wife leaves her job her school pension is kept until she is 65 and then she gets it. In the forces pensions aren't paid out the day they leave. If you want to leave at 55 and wait 'til 60 for your pension fine but expecting it at 55 at 20K and having the ability to work another 15/16/17 years to age 67 and then getting state pension at 7k on top is a big ask in my view.

The report on firefighters also mentioned that being overweight and out of condition has more of an effect than age on deterioration of capacity between 55 and 60.

[gary999]

Anybody is entitled to do what they want , some have jobs on the side and play semi pro footy and get paid a few more .

My friend works 5 day week , and tops his income up on a Friday and Saturday night being a DJ .
MPs get loads of wages and expenses and many are also on the boards of other companies being directors getting paid.

Stand up and be counted for .

We should be standing Upto the ENERGY companies and fighting them not some gvt/public sector problem.

Everyone stop paying gas/electric for one month .
These are the persons the gvt should be attacking .

We're all paying double/treble for our energy now , and this is attacking our disposable income to spend within the economy .

you are wasting your breath matey...any socialistic tendency we had
of sticking together disappeared in the era of thatcher grab grab
mentatlity the selling of council property when a whole generation
were sold on the idea of making money from it then disapearing

sucessive goverments both tory and so called labour carried on
peddling the same crap untill the general public has beome so brainwashed
or terrified or trapped by their own greed that they  are too afraid
to take any stand and are left in a situation where they are just about
clinging onto what they have now.

people make a stand...not a chance!

[gary999]

Welcome to the new world Robert. You forget that the 1992 and the 2006 schemes still remain relevant for those that joined before those dates. So a new 20 year old starting in 2014 has to work to 60 to get two thirds; well whoop-de-do. What will the general UK retirement age be in 2054 if we even recognise the system then? - 70?  And with shift patterns there is plenty of opportunity to do window cleaning, gardening, decorating or w-h-y.

Times change - out in the real world folk are retiring at 65 now; not 55 soon it will be 66 and then 67. Lucky me gets 66 my younger wife gets 67 when she was expecting 60 not long ago.

The picture is far bigger than the UK - this world only has so much resource to spread around - the B.R.I.C.K. economies (half the worlds population) and their people want their day in the sun as Europe and the USA did/are. And the average age is increasing. You cannot hope to be ring-fenced. The price you pay for living longer is working longer or harder. That's life.

If my wife leaves her job her school pension is kept until she is 65 and then she gets it. In the forces pensions aren't paid out the day they leave. If you want to leave at 55 and wait 'til 60 for your pension fine but expecting it at 55 at 20K and having the ability to work another 15/16/17 years to age 67 and then getting state pension at 7k on top is a big ask in my view.

The report on firefighters also mentioned that being overweight and out of condition has more of an effect than age on deterioration of capacity between 55 and 60.

old granville has just encapsulated in the above post the whole
reason why you cannot win this argument and you wont especially
at this time.

i personally believe the majority of people would say the same
if they could put it down as well as gold has.

dont get me wrong robert..i respect the job you do but as this
post has gone on i have respected your argument less and less
especially when it comes to the childish comments of us being haters

[Don Kee]

I have to say i was very much in support of firemen, but aftervreading this (very long) thread, my opinion is turning.
Not because what others are saying, its the actual arguements that the firemen in this thread are using.
I understand you dont speak for firemen as a whole (i really hope you dont due to the way you come across) but your making yourselves look slightly silly with some of the things your saying (on this thread)
'If you think its such a good deal then why dont you do it' arguement is petty, and juvenile, can you imagine that as your picket slogan??

I have customers that are firemen, and after talking to them i support there right to fight for what they believe in. May not agree fully with the reasons, but thats my right.
Luckily they came across as thoughtful and passionate, not coming across as having a 'living in a bubble' mentality as some of the firemen on this thread are

[kempy]

Why oh why do some persons moan at what others are doing and earning etc .
I know a few fireman and fair play to them . They signed a contract and should get it .
MP's get a full pension after just 8 years , yes 8 years , and this is a pension from a salary of £70,000 , I know which person I prefere .
We should all down tools over MP's and energy firms etc .
Let's not get dominated by the hierarchy .

On this forum a lot of window cleaners boast at they are £30 per hour and £300 , £400 a day .
I say good on yer , love to myself . So the ones earning that money why moan at the firefighters earning £13 per hour etc.

What are the window cleaners on here moaning at .
Me I'm not bothered what the police or firefighters and nurses etc earn , all I know of is there always there in a emergency .

I was in the army for 5 years so maybe I like my public sector workers etc .

I'd imagine the window cleaners on here who boast of earning £30per hour , £300 a day plus should be well  financially safe for their retirement day , probably have several house on the go by then .

Come on guys , do your own work , and worry about yourselves

Footballers earning £1000 per week to £200,000 per week . Are u moaning at them as well.

To me MPS ARE THE WORST , £70,000 plus expenses and a lot have been found out as fiddlers of expenses .

[C o z y]

I see your point, but I don't see anyone moaning about what firemen earn mate, and there are no 200K footballers on here moaning about their pensions. I've been reading this thread for over a week I think. I don't see anyone moaning about what firemen earn, they are getting Robert's story from him and changing their opinions about the strike.

IMO, I find it amazing that at the scene of a major fire, firemen down tools and walk away!!! No life threatened, but firemen walk away from a fire over an industrial dispute?? Then expect the public to understand?

My house is burning, my family stand in the street, so no life is under threat, and the firemen down tools?? Then expect public support? Think again lads.

[gary999]

couldnt careless what they earn personally,just disagree with the
reasons for strike at this time

[robert mitchell]

http://dasbeardsblog.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/why-the-fire-fighters-matter/

This guy explains things far better than I ever could .

150 people going for each job doesnt stop you applying , out of 650 that passed the application form only 13 of us were still there at the end .

Im nothing special , anyone that's determined can do it .

Just for info , im not on the original pension that is being robbed so it doesnt affect me as much as those that are , theiving is theiving , if it was a private company robbing pensions would you feel any different ?

[C o z y]

Same with my army pension mate, but walking away from fires is shyte. Won yourselves no support at all doing that. How many jobs were lost because that fire was allowed to burn at that Dagenham fire? How many lives will that fire being allowed to burn effect?

Good luck with your strike action, you'll need it. Not everyone wants to be a fireman, or airline pilot, or window cleaner, so drop the immature attitude to that subject mate. You were doing quite well at the start of the thread, now you're just digging yourself a deeper hole IMO.

[robert mitchell]

I never said everybody wants to be a firefighter ,I have just been responding to comments saying how easy it is etc .

Maybe I shouldnt get drawn into that part of the debate but there have been some quite derogatory comments about firefighters on here .

If you carry on responding to calls then it wouldnt be a strike.
We agreed to go back for major incidents and when life is at risk .

There were still personnel ( mostly management ) dealing with the fire .

[C o z y]

Well that's OK then if the firefighters walk away, because at least management are staying to fight it eh?  As I said, think about how a fire left to burn can effect not just jobs that are lost because the fire was allowed to burn and how it must feel as a firefighter to walk away from a fire still burning! Then try to explain to people that as long as you're out of the building and safe, you'll then leave some management to figt the fire as best they can while you push off back to the station for tea and medals. 

Put the spade down Robert.

[robert mitchell]

There comes a point when your backed into a corner and have no choice left but to fight .

This has come after more than two years of trying to avoid this happening .

How do you suggest we fight back ?

Or are you all for just giving in and letting the government carry on stitching all of us up while they live happily in the knowledge they will be fine .

They even gwt us to pay their energy bills !

[C o z y]

This is what the whole thread is about. It's going round full circle every third page mate. How do police fight their point when they aren't allowed to strike? Or the forces? Answer, strike doesn't come into it, so that's the way it is. Ever since the first fireman's strike back in the 70's, you started to lose public support. Now it's at an all time low. You're part of the rescue service and as such, serve the country. You've got a problem with your 20K minimum pension, and the public see you walk away from a fire that's still burning mate. Have a little think about that.

When I served 9 years as a squaddie, I was based in Germany. We got a "Local Overseas Allowance" to stock up our wage to meet the higher cost of living here. Every time we got a pay rise of 2 or 3% our LOA went down. So no real pay rise. The troops in UK got 2 or 3% too, and their food and accommodation cost went up to, so no pay rise.

Count what advantage you have from the job you chose and get on with making the best of it. You're posting about a 20K pension on a forum of full time windies, that struggle to equal that full time!!

Here's a tip Robert, stay in the fire service, because if anyone ever offers you a job in public relations, you won't be the new Max Clifford mate.

[robert mitchell]

Its not a £20 k minimum pension , thats the maximum you can get if you make it from 20 -60 which most wont .

After 26 years my projected pension is just under 8000 , thats if I make it to 60 . If I have to go at 55 which is likely its around 4000.

Hardly gold plated.

My brothers are both soldiers , one just retired at 43 and is getting around 700 a month now and this will more than double when he is sixty and he still has seventeen years to work and pay into another pension .

Thats after 22 years service not 40 .

Hardly a bad deal is it ?

I firmly believe they deserve it too .

Police have been fighting for the right to strike .

If nobody fought against these things and just shrugged and said thats how it is , we would all still be getting treated like poop for next to know wages .

[C o z y]

Yeah, back to the same old stance. You must strike. Ah well, let's hope nobody dies eh? I no longer support your view. Wonder if I'm the only one. Some of you see your job as just that, a job. Not serving anyone, just a job.

I have my own thoughts on firemen that see this as you do. I'm out of this thread. All the best.

[robert mitchell]

People are going to die , firefighters and public .

That is on the governments shoulders .

When an appliance turns up to your house on fire and people are trapped  , a ba team consisting of two late fifties firefighters will not work as quickly and there bodies will struggle with the dangerous increase in core body temperature. 

When that firefighter has a heart attack trying to save the trapped people it puts those trapped people at risk .

Thats a fact and the government know it .

During the strikes we have already agreed to break the picket line to save life so our strikes are not going to kill anyone .

Your out of this thread because your argument is flawed .

I know we have a lot of public support , seen it and heard it with my own eyes and ears .

Just because you dont support it doesn't mean we have lost public support.

[robert mitchell]

You also dont know me and your making assumptions , I dont think of it as just a job.

I worked very hard to get it and I love making a difference to people , and we do that in many different ways .

[C o z y]

You're bleating. If you think you have public support, crack on Robert. If anyone dies, blame the government. Enjoy your nice fat pension, and don't cross any picket lines, just focus on your pension mate. It's only a few windies that are "haters" and everyone loves a fireman, until some poor sucker dies because you and your mates wanted to strike over a fat pension.

It's just me and a few others that have totally mis-understood your point. If only you'de have taken a job as a copper, or a soldier eh? I've got my opinion, and it's different to how it was before I read your view.