[gary999]

Tosh , a fireman was killed earlier this year in manchester in a fire at a hairdressers , Stephen hunt.

I also agree with you about soldiers ,  my brother is having huge difficulties with what he experienced in iraq , he was involved in the longest and bloodiest battle in the iraq war as part of the queens dragoon guards working alongside the marines.

When he flew home he said to his wife that " he had to go and have a bath as i have my mates blood on me".

People see al  the missing limbs etc but they don't see the mental scars , and there are many more people with ptsd than there are with physical injuries.

Seeing dead , children and babies , mass graves , constant shelling day and night and living with the fact you have killed people - not easy.

Firefighter deaths have doubled in the last ten years .

I think you will also find that any fireman you ask about the 2002 strikes will agree that it was ridiculous , the union then was very different.

This strike is not asking for a pay rise , its asking for what firefighters have already been paying for for years , just for the record im on the 2006 pension so it doesnt affect me as much as people on the original pension.

Its not just about firefighter deaths either , there are many injuries that mean you cant work again , shorter life expectancy due to breathing contaminants etc.

There is also the horrible things you see that sometimes keep you awake at night , something i have experienced myself recently .

Gary 999 i dont see your problem with my statement and i stick by it , its the truth .

How does it lose me the argument ?

Explain please .

truth or not it is irelevant

ive had a member of family rescued from a serious accident and we
will always be grateful to the fire service and also to the ambulance
service who kept her alive on the way to hospital...i also grateful to
the specialist who operated and cured her ills so she could carry on
living and the doctors nurses physiotherapists and physcotherapists
in her rehabilitation to get her back to where she is now..

i will always be grateful to all these people...but this mean i dont
have the right to question the policy and the reason why you are
considering stike action which could possibly leave somebody else
without help.

yes i do have the right...if you were striking against funds for infrastructure
and training being withdrawn which would save people lives you would
have my unequivicol support.

but as things stand in this country arguments over pensions
far as im concerned should not be high on the agenda so  i dont agree with it.

your high handed childish statement which to me comes across arrogant
will win you no friends especially if you spout crap such as that to the
general public no matter how factual it is.

dont bother answering yu have completely left me disinterested
in your cause now

[robert mitchell]

Tosh , i agree with you about the army totally and think they deserve to be treated much better.

The main argument though is about fitness and pension age , not about how dangerous the job is , thats why i didn t bring it up.

I have been drawn into it a bit though.

my point about the number of firefighters dying is that the figure is going up , the reason for this is investing the fire service budgets in the wrong way .

So much money is wasted on pointless stuff leaving less for the important stuff, the waste that goes in the public sector really annoys me .

Even little things like spending £300 fixing an £80 printer  and the big things like fire control project.

Dont get me started on the endless amounts of managers and I.T staff etc .

[robert mitchell]

gary999

Im being honest about the facts , dont see a problem with that .

And the strike is about safety  , public safety and firefighter safety.

I certainly wouldnt want a truck full of 58/59 year olds turning up if my kids were trapped in a fire .

There is already a higher than average  amount of heart attacks in the fire service due to the sudden nature of the job , that will climb even higher when there are people in there late fifties riding the appliances .

more people will die because of these proposals.

All taxpayers have the right to question the reasons for our strike and also the policys of the government ,fire ministers etc.

Boris johnson is closing ten stations and losing nearly six hundred firefighters in london at a time when fire deaths in the home are rising in that area.

[Tom White]

your high handed childish statement which to me comes across arrogant
will win you no friends especially if you spout crap such as that to the
general public no matter how factual it is.

dont bother answering yu have completely left me disinterested
in your cause now

Your pet lip, Gary, go take it for a walk somewhere.  You sound like Dramarama getting a childish huff on.

At all times, remember it's just the interweb.

[gary999]

sorry  tosh  havent got the huff  at all

its my opinion in fact some of the posts on here have been huffy
mine arent..the post gave me the impression we should all be that
grateful that we arent allowed to disagree with their position..if ive
got the wrong end of the stick fair enough!

but as for having a huff i really dont think so


but  hey your entitled to your opinion...and we know how much you value
it

[robert mitchell]

Completely the wrong end of the stick , and you do sound huffy .

This is the problem when not discussing face to face , people take things the wrong way .

Im not even remotely arrogant , but I do hate it when people are ripped off .

The government  take the banks to task over ppi mis selling then act the same way with our pensions .

Their pensions however have been improved .

The money they want to save could easily be saved in other ways without detriment to the service recieved by the public or any detriment to firefighters .

There is so much waste that could be avoided if they listened to the people that actually do the work instead of out of touch senior managers .

[gary999]

not  huffy at all  i see your point of view now you have
stated it more clearly...yours wasnt the only view i was reading either
other views on here from the fire service quoting figures of
loss and sarcasm of jealousy etc hardly helps to make the point
does it really.

like ive said before i can see your point of view but
still dont agree..wrong time at this moment bigger issues
to solve and at this time i can only see this being twisted
against you if you do strike by the media and the powers
that be!

i shall leave it like that now,before chucky comes on again
and get his head spinning again in delight by my badly percieved behaviour

best of luck

Gary

[Paul Coleman]

I have 1 daughter who is 10 and my wife is disabled and wheelchair bound, she doesn't and can't work, hence working a second job to keep our heads above water

I realise this is a side issue but, if you are struggling, are you aware that DLA is not means tested?  Also, if they have turned down previous applications for DLA, it is worth appealing - multiple times if necessary.

Don't read this the wrong way.  I'm not putting the boot in like some of the pee takers.  It's genuine info.

[Paul Coleman]

this forum really has gone down hill,

This was first said about three months after the forum began in 2003 I think it was, and has been repeated at regular intervals ever since.

The thing is, this forum doesn't exist all by itself; it takes a conceptual mind to create it.  When you like what people say, you create it to be great, and when you don't like what people say you create it to be going downhill.

But that's a very self centred opinion.

I thought it only went downhill after I joined 

[stuart mc]

this forum really has gone down hill,

This was first said about three months after the forum began in 2003 I think it was, and has been repeated at regular intervals ever since.

The thing is, this forum doesn't exist all by itself; it takes a conceptual mind to create it.  When you like what people say, you create it to be great, and when you don't like what people say you create it to be going downhill.

But that's a very self centred opinion.

I thought it only went downhill after I joined 

it did

[stuart mc]

right, back on subject, well for me anyway as I would like to hear facts, to any fire fighters reading this

what age do you work to at the moment?

what age is the new proposals expecting you to work to?

if you do leave is there a resettlement package for return to normal working life?

Is there scope for saying when you reach a certain age that you move into more administrative jobs?

you actually have me nearly onside but was just wondering on the above

[robert mitchell]

The original pension was 30 years with compulsory retirement at 55 .

The new pension 2006 is 40 years and retire at 60 , the union never agreed this but couldnt strike at the time because nobody was on it yet .

The 2006 pension said that at 55 you would move to non active role .

There are nowhere near enough of those jobs to go round , at last check a few weeks ago there were three vacancies nationwide .

There is no ressettlement package .

[stuart mc]

The original pension was 30 years with compulsory retirement at 55 .

The new pension 2006 is 40 years and retire at 60 , the union never agreed this but couldnt strike at the time because nobody was on it yet .

The 2006 pension said that at 55 you would move to non active role .

There are nowhere near enough of those jobs to go round , at last check a few weeks ago there were three vacancies nationwide .

There is no ressettlement package .

thanks for answering, strike away you have my support

[Frankybadboy]

tosh quoted figures about fire-fighter not being a dangerous job,fiq tell us that




but really to turn up to a burning building and go in side if dangerous to me more than the fiq could quote.


few guys I train with are fighters and they have my support.

[robert mitchell]

Of course its dangerous , thats why need to have the right mindset and obviously training plays a big part .

Thats why more firefighters are dying now , lack of investment in realistic training facilities .

And thanks for your support , we actually have a lot of public support which we are all grateful for .

[robert mitchell]

Here is a leaflet that explains some of it.

[robert mitchell]

This is the williams report that was commisioned by the government , a bit heavy going to read it all but its worth reading the conclusions and recommendations at the end if your interested in why we are striking .

The government are ignoring all these reccomendations meaning if im not to fit to work after 55 i lose upto half of my earned pension
as well as not being able to draw anything until im 67 .

Also worth knowing that if only 7% of firefighters opt out all the money they are trying to save will be lost , any more than 7% and they are worse off than they are now and the pension would have to propped up by more taxpayers money.

[Stephen.C]

100% behind the Fire fighters most  just want to keep their families in a good standard of living just like us.
Plenty of work to go round.

[Dave Willis]

At least they have a pension to look forward to.

[robert mitchell]

Thanks for your support stephen , your right there is loads of work out there if your willing to go and get it .

Dave , not really sure what your getting at ?