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Graeme Smith

Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« on: October 08, 2013, 12:35:06 pm »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 01:28:24 pm »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.
Hi Graeme
This is what I use, I have some new Diamond Brushes in 17" coming in soon, I will let you know the price as soon as they land. My feeling is, they work better with a bit of weight behind them. I too get a lot of Sandstone floors to clean (must be something to do with living in Yorkshire eh?) I have tried the "removers" and some simply do not work. I know that the suppliers say.."Wait a couple of hours for the removers to work, then re-apply if you need too". But who has got 'several hours to wait? Who is paying for that time? If the customer does, thats fine, but they are few and far between. I have removed paint, sealers and allsorts of rubbish from sandstone using the Diamond brushes, the last job had a very thick layer of, what looked like yacht varnish. The brushes are capable of removing just about anything, with just water. Not what the chemical suppliers want to hear, I know!
I use the 4'' Brush on my Flex machine at the slowest speed and I am yet to find something that it won't remove.
I also use the carbide brushes, but the diamonds are the way forward.

Chip Ward

  • Posts: 14
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 09:51:06 pm »
Hi Rob,

I would be interested in information and costings for the brushes too. I've gone down the chemical route including using other abrasive mediums on problem coatings. I'm looking for more effective method of removal for old solvent based coatings.

Regards

Chip

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 09:54:29 pm »
Hi Rob,

I would be interested in information and costings for the brushes too. I've gone down the chemical route including using other abrasive mediums on problem coatings. I'm looking for more effective method of removal for old solvent based coatings.

Regards

Chip
Hi Chip
ok, I will send you the price when they land. Send me an email to;
stonetilecleaning@gmail.com and I can reply to you.

Chip Ward

  • Posts: 14
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2013, 10:08:50 pm »
Many thanks Rob.

Cheers

Chip

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 04:49:59 am »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.
Hi Graeme
This is what I use, I have some new Diamond Brushes in 17" coming in soon, I will let you know the price as soon as they land. My feeling is, they work better with a bit of weight behind them. I too get a lot of Sandstone floors to clean (must be something to do with living in Yorkshire eh?) I have tried the "removers" and some simply do not work. I know that the suppliers say.."Wait a couple of hours for the removers to work, then re-apply if you need too". But who has got 'several hours to wait? Who is paying for that time? If the customer does, thats fine, but they are few and far between. I have removed paint, sealers and allsorts of rubbish from sandstone using the Diamond brushes, the last job had a very thick layer of, what looked like yacht varnish. The brushes are capable of removing just about anything, with just water. Not what the chemical suppliers want to hear, I know!
I use the 4'' Brush on my Flex machine at the slowest speed and I am yet to find something that it won't remove.
I also use the carbide brushes, but the diamonds are the way forward.

Rob

When you get your brushes in can you e mail me prices as well for the 17" ones together with what grits they will be available in.  Can you also let me know which machines you will be stocking them for and if you will be stocking 13", 15" and 20" as well?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 05:11:45 am »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.

Graeme

Diamond Brushes are fantastic!  I have done extensive testing on them over the last couple of years!  The problem is we cannot get them to work on all stone!   They work well on most stone but this is not their most important application they have more important uses.
So you may ask why haven't we started selling them?  The reason is simple!  They are in their current form too expensive to stock and retail and that is what we are currently trying to solve!  Too many people see something and just jump in and then realise the problems and pitfalls.  Tiling Logistics Ltd do the R&D first and try to solve problems before bringing items to market.  I do have enough stock to supply you with some though if your desperate.  Give me a ring later today and let me know which grits you want to try from 30, 60, 120, 225, 400, 800, 1500, 3000, 5000, 10000 or 15000.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Graeme Smith

Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 06:16:45 am »
Kevin its the York sandstone area that I am interested in - so the coarse grits would be of interest.
Thanks

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 08:45:50 am »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.
Hi Graeme
This is what I use, I have some new Diamond Brushes in 17" coming in soon, I will let you know the price as soon as they land. My feeling is, they work better with a bit of weight behind them. I too get a lot of Sandstone floors to clean (must be something to do with living in Yorkshire eh?) I have tried the "removers" and some simply do not work. I know that the suppliers say.."Wait a couple of hours for the removers to work, then re-apply if you need too". But who has got 'several hours to wait? Who is paying for that time? If the customer does, thats fine, but they are few and far between. I have removed paint, sealers and allsorts of rubbish from sandstone using the Diamond brushes, the last job had a very thick layer of, what looked like yacht varnish. The brushes are capable of removing just about anything, with just water. Not what the chemical suppliers want to hear, I know!
I use the 4'' Brush on my Flex machine at the slowest speed and I am yet to find something that it won't remove.
I also use the carbide brushes, but the diamonds are the way forward.

Rob

When you get your brushes in can you e mail me prices as well for the 17" ones together with what grits they will be available in.  Can you also let me know which machines you will be stocking them for and if you will be stocking 13", 15" and 20" as well?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd
Of course I will Kevin, I have stocks of 4" but I note that you don't use the 4's
If 13, 15 and 20 is your thing, I will keep those too.
Hope you're well Kevin, I haven't spoke to you for sometime, hope you are settled in to your new premises?

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2013, 11:18:37 am »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.
Hi Graeme
This is what I use, I have some new Diamond Brushes in 17" coming in soon, I will let you know the price as soon as they land. My feeling is, they work better with a bit of weight behind them. I too get a lot of Sandstone floors to clean (must be something to do with living in Yorkshire eh?) I have tried the "removers" and some simply do not work. I know that the suppliers say.."Wait a couple of hours for the removers to work, then re-apply if you need too". But who has got 'several hours to wait? Who is paying for that time? If the customer does, thats fine, but they are few and far between. I have removed paint, sealers and allsorts of rubbish from sandstone using the Diamond brushes, the last job had a very thick layer of, what looked like yacht varnish. The brushes are capable of removing just about anything, with just water. Not what the chemical suppliers want to hear, I know!
I use the 4'' Brush on my Flex machine at the slowest speed and I am yet to find something that it won't remove.
I also use the carbide brushes, but the diamonds are the way forward.

Rob

When you get your brushes in can you e mail me prices as well for the 17" ones together with what grits they will be available in.  Can you also let me know which machines you will be stocking them for and if you will be stocking 13", 15" and 20" as well?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd
Of course I will Kevin, I have stocks of 4" but I note that you don't use the 4's
If 13, 15 and 20 is your thing, I will keep those too.
Hope you're well Kevin, I haven't spoke to you for sometime, hope you are settled in to your new premises?

Rob

Very well thank you!  Not settled in yet that will probably be around January.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 06:45:54 pm »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.
Back to the topic Graeme, What have you been using up until now to do your Yorkshire Stone cleaning?

Graeme Smith

Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 06:56:31 pm »
High alkaline various brands i.e HD + the lithofin version + a Chemspec one all are as effective with general dirt. Got the Klindex Tynex brush attachment for the Rocky. Used AM SCR and the lithofin smelly alternative 'wax off' Wax off is ok but smells and is watery so tends to run off and dry faster. SCR is slower acting but more gel like so has advantages that way and it does not stink too much. Used Xylene but that does smell lots about as effective as Lithofin.
The issue is York stone can be smooth but is often very rough and has lots of paint + bitumen if discovered under carpet and screeds. I guess the problem is speed and the issue of odour - trying to find something that is very abrasive  that is less reliant on solvents to do the job.

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 07:34:52 pm »
High alkaline various brands i.e HD + the lithofin version + a Chemspec one all are as effective with general dirt. Got the Klindex Tynex brush attachment for the Rocky. Used AM SCR and the lithofin smelly alternative 'wax off' Wax off is ok but smells and is watery so tends to run off and dry faster. SCR is slower acting but more gel like so has advantages that way and it does not stink too much. Used Xylene but that does smell lots about as effective as Lithofin.
The issue is York stone can be smooth but is often very rough and has lots of paint + bitumen if discovered under carpet and screeds. I guess the problem is speed and the issue of odour - trying to find something that is very abrasive  that is less reliant on solvents to do the job.
.....Diamonds....but I am sure there will be an alternative here soon... ;D

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: Whats the limitation of a diamond brush systems do
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2013, 06:25:47 pm »
Never even seen a diamond brush system for a 17'' rotary machine so I wondered what they are capable of? With say 42kg of weight spinning at around 150rpm to 200rpm how aggressive are they for removing paint/bitumen off a very rough and riven York sandstone. I get a few enquiries for York stone that has been found under carpet and concrete and really need a lot of cleaning - I am reasonably familiar with the cleaning by chemical route but wondered how far a brush system would go for restorative cleaning via water and just an alkaline or acid wash for cement residue as opposed to a planned maintenance clean in a commercial setting.

Graeme

Diamond Brushes are fantastic!  I have done extensive testing on them over the last couple of years!  The problem is we cannot get them to work on all stone!   They work well on most stone but this is not their most important application they have more important uses.
So you may ask why haven't we started selling them?  The reason is simple!  They are in their current form too expensive to stock and retail and that is what we are currently trying to solve!  Too many people see something and just jump in and then realise the problems and pitfalls.  Tiling Logistics Ltd do the R&D first and try to solve problems before bringing items to market.  I do have enough stock to supply you with some though if your desperate.  Give me a ring later today and let me know which grits you want to try from 30, 60, 120, 225, 400, 800, 1500, 3000, 5000, 10000 or 15000.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd
Which Stone do you have problems with the Brush working on Kevin?
I am sat on the fence a little with your comment..."they work well on most stone, but this isn't their most important application".
I am not too sure that this is what you mean.
Their intended use is brush finishing to Marble & Limestone and final stages of Bush Hammering...but as this is a cleaning Forum, I would argue that the IMPORTANT use here is cleaning...and I think they are the best thing since sliced bread for cleaning stone. (Meanwhile, over on the Bush Hammering forum, things are very different!!) ;D
What problems have you come up against?
Obviously, stone finish would be taken into consideration. You wouldnt want to use an abrasive brush on a polished floor, however, on slate and sandstone, you would struggle to find anything better.
On the cost side of your post, my brushes start at £20 for silicone carbide and £40 for the diamond brushes. Thats not too bad....oh and we also do the R&D on our own floors before putting on the market. Very important!