[Richard iSparkle]

I have an employee in my office who I believe may have added hours to their time sheet that they didn't work.  They work in my office and I am in and out (mostly out!) so they are in a position of trust.  If I find after the investigation that I believe they have lied on their time sheet should I sack them or give them a stern formal warning?

[Frankybadboy]

what are you term of employment



also I think about talking to a employment solicitor and not asking people on here,cause if you do the wrong thing it could cost you a lot more money

[Crystal-clear]

I think first How many hours have lied about ?

[PoleKing]

If you are absolutely certain, a warning.
Might be worth finding out why they've done it.
If the need money they may be prepared to do more that fiddle a time sheet.
If it's just the time sheet, have you tought about a click in/out?
When I was in an office, I had to click 'sign in' on a time card programme.
Don't know what it was called but you could google it.

[PoleKing]

If you are absolutely certain, a warning.
Might be worth finding out why they've done it.
If the need money they may be prepared to do more that fiddle a time sheet.
If it's just the time sheet, have you tought about a click in/out?
When I was in an office, I had to click 'sign in' on a time card programme.
Don't know what it was called but you could google it.

It's not because they're short of money.  They have set number of hrs over a month, eg 60 hrs over a month

Stick some CCTV up.

If you like them, have a chat and give them a verbal.
If not, now's a perfect time to get rid

[Frankybadboy]

Hey franky.  I have got legal HR advice.  I know what my rights are.  It's fraud and gross misconduct.  The question I'm wondering is how people here consider it

well I think you need to take the advice that they have given you


then put in place for everyone a some of the options given to from the guys on here

good luck

[Smudger]

Question 1.  How long have you employed them
Question 2.  Have you absolute concrete proof
Question 3.   In all other respects are they a first rate employee

Darran

[bobplum]

yes

[Whizz-Bizz]

Tricky 1 this 1, BUT remember there's always options  .
Personally I would sit them down and have a witness present, not someone who works there, do an overall appraisal, (which you have typed up and they sign) with them in regards to all of their work. Talk to them about strengths and weaknesses and areas you would want to see a marked improvement on. Address the issue of doctored time sheet and I would look to go written warning and 3 day unpaid suspension or the equivalent of the 15 hours they stole. If they come back after the suspension showing a bit of remorse don't bring it up again unless they step out of line. If they don't come back you don't want them anyway. 

They have been with you 5 years thats pretty loyal in todays society, and I think you could turn this negative into a positive by re-introducing structure to the work place and define there job role and your expectations. Also actually ask them this question "What can I do to make your job better ?"

99% of the time when you ask that question to employee they respond with "nothing" So just be like O.K in that case Ill see you in 3 days lets re focus and move forward.

While there away thou get on their pc and check their history, if their job hunting etc maybe time to start looking for their replacement.

Just my thoughts hope this helps     

[robertphil]

spend a while thinking about what else they could be fiddlin. 

[paul13]

I think first How many hours have lied about ?

About 15 hrs extra over a month

Sack him, if you know he added 15 hours over a month and have proof
no other option in my opinion, you will not trust him from now on and if
he has been caught out for this think you might find hes got two fingers
up every time you turn your back.

[Smudger]

It's never really as straight forward as just sacking them unless they have other issues bad time keeping etc...  You also really need a paper trail to show everything has been done correctly.

Whizz biz pretty much has it correct, but any official meeting you both need a witness and they need to be from the company (work colleague) or Union rep.

I think a final written warning would be the route foe me if their record was excellent and in the meeting see why they did it they may have problems at home and need to work extra hours etc...

Darran

[windymiller]

Give the employee the option of repaying the hours back, if he is not happy to do this then sack him 

[Crystal-clear]

15 hours is quite alot   I was hoping it was something like 3-4 where a chat might have worked,

Maybe mention that they owe you 15 hours that they were over paid see how that works. ?

[Paul Coleman]

I've never been an employer.
As an employee I regularly fiddled time at one particular job.  It doesn't make it right but nearly everyone did it at that place.  It wasn't about getting extra time but more about leaving a bit early and other people using your clockcard.  The management were aware up to a certain level in the hierarchy and turned a blind eye unless there was a purge from above.  They took the view that if you want people to do long hours (occasionally 70+ hours a week and sometimes 90+) to get deadline work out of the door, then finishing a bit early if the work was all done was no big deal.  That was in a different era though (up till mid/late 80s).
So I'm coming at this from a different place to some on here.
Personally, I reckon that the main problem is not about what has already happened.  It's about what might happen in the future.  If you let this go so long as restitution is made (either financially or with unpaid work time), then well done for being fair minded.  However, other employees may take the view that they get one chance as well and to not give it, may even be classed as victimisation.
When I worked in the printing trade, there was a case of someone who got caught on a clockcard fiddle.  He was sacked.  However, the employer made the mistake of not prosecuting for fraud.  The tribunal ruled in the sacked person's favour.  Part of the reason (there were others) was that no prosecution was sought.  It has to be remembered though that they were different times with different rules.
So all I'm saying is, if you sack, be prepared to back it up with weight of law.  Your get out card may be the break in service as you only need to use the word "unsuitable" if he re-started and wouldn't need to seek prosecution.  So, not mentioning the time fraud may be your best bet if you sack.

[Paul H]

Be wary of 3rd party indirect evidence ... there maybe a witch hunt or conspiracy to oust the employee by others.

Big question for me is if they've done it.... WHY ?.... that may give you another underlying issue to deal with.

WHY do you think?... cos if youre expecting peoples advice then knowing a bit on the reason why may help you get the right advice.

Put this to one side.... what has their performance been like in the past???

Theres  whole loads of stuff to go through and consider before you make someone bite the bullet...


I always believe if you let someone know you are onto them ... they'll do 1 of a few things

1. they'll stop what they've done , step up to the plate and perform for you ( this is where the showing faith comes into it)
2. They'll look for a new job and leave anyways
3. They'll do non of the above and cos youll give them enough rope by keeping them to see if theyve changed they'll actually use it to hang themselves (not literally)...

Good luck

[robertphil]

post up a foto of them on here- so that nobody on here hires them in this trade

[8weekly]

post up a foto of them on here- so that nobody on here hires them in this trade

Lol.

[Danny Guest]

Richard
Call him in get it sorted then let us know how it goes!

1. He might confess and you've got him.
2if he denies it he knows your on to him in which case he either stops or make it more obvious what he's doing.

Danny

[Ian101]

Richard if your gonna be office based dont forget to buy yourself a spinning wheelie chair