[Fieldsy]

Hi,

We have had our system running on a varistream controller (digital) for quite some time without any problems, but it has finally given up the ghost, so we have opted for the streamline digital controller.

We run two hoses, both on 100mm 8mm microbore reels.

We have all new fittings on all reels and hoses and there are positively no leaks .


Right, the varistream had a maximum of 9 setting and on this you could really here the pump working at full pelt ( when cleaning con roofs, stubborn dirt on guttering etc...) and both hoses had powerful jets coming from them.


We now have the streamline with CAL set on 40 and the flow rate on 86 ( only 13 from MAX),

...and to be honest, the jet is nowhere near as powerful as the varistream which I find dissapointing. If we had to turn it up to do roofs/guttering...on 99 it would be nowhere near as powerful.

So, is the streamline a poor replacement for the varistream or is there something we have set up wrong ??


The only two differences are this, as opposed to the set up of the varistream.

When i connected the varistream, i read on here that the pump flow controller needed to be bypassed. Now I have the streamline connected it is still bypassed , even though I have read on here that it shouldn't be with a streamline. I can re-connect it, but is it really gonna give more power ??


Secondly, the varistream had shorter connection wires to the pump and battery ( as i read, longer wires can cause a resisstance). The wires on the streamline are anything between 8-10 feet long and I've wound them up. Would any resistance in the wiring limit power to the pump/controller ??.


Am I clutching at straws with these two possibilities, as I'm just amazed at the loss of power compared to the varistream and made the wrong purchase ((

Any help appreciated, thanks...................oh its running a 5.2 litre shurflo pump (brand new) and running off a deep cycle gel battery (brand new) which is fully charged.

The pump doesn't sound like its running anywhere near its max on a setting of 99

[Fieldsy]

Anybody ??

[Ian Sheppard]

I have a couple questions for you
1. are you running two hose,s  from one pump?
2. have you run the auto cal on the controller or manually set it to 40?
3. may seem a daft question, is there any blockages or air in the hose line?
4. What size AH battery are you using? How old is it? and what is the voltage as shown on the controller?
5. What size jets are you using?

We send out the long lengths of cable to allow for larger and smaller vehicles. I would suggest you cut the cables to length chopping the ends without the bullet connectors the make your connection to the battery and pump.

Volt drop along the cable will effect the power available form the pump.

The Streamline digitals are designed to operate with the pump pressure switch so I would suggest re connecting it. This provides an additional failsafe should for some reason the control not stop the pump the Pressure switch will.
Once we get over the initial set up the control will give good service and provide additional features

Cheers

Ian

[Fieldsy]

Hi Ian,


Thanks for the reply

Ok, here goes

Yes, we are runnig two hoses from one pump
Yes, we ran the auto cal with longest pole extended and it registered at 31, flow was still poor so we have upped it to 40 manually with flow on 86
There are no blockages, we have checked everything, cleaned filters etc...
Battery is 104ah deep cycle gel battery, and is brand new, by brand new, I mean 3-4 months old. Voltage on controller is showing 12.6v after a days work, it shows 12.4v
Size of jets ?, sorry have no idea, but both using Vikan brushes if that helps ??

 I will take your advice Ian and shorten the wires and re-connect the pump pressure switch. I have  noticed in the past that the scotch lock connectors do not always make a great connection, so will change these aswell.

Any noticable difference Ian, and I'll post back on here.
I'm sure its something simple Ian as everything is tight and new, all hoses, pump, battery, controller and all connections.

Thanks for the reply Ian, cheers Paul

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Paul
You have a good strong battery, reducing the cable length will help a little as more current will reach the pump

I feel the issue is head of pressure in the two poles. There is a really good article explaining this in the WCM July edition
http://www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk/magazines/WCM-jul2013-issue8.pdf

Scroll down to page 23.

Water will naturally try to take the easiest path and the majority of the pressure will run to the lower pole of the two.
Your 5.2 liters and 100PSI will not split equally between the two poles. So for example if you have pole one at the second floor running say 60 feet of hose and pole two at the 1st floor running from 40 feet of hose most of the pressure and flow will end up in pole two.
The controller will be trying to auto compensate for the different heights and will try to push more flow toward pole one in my example. The result will be poor flow to both poles. Plus your pump is likely running close to its maximum capacity pulling 5 - 7 amps an hour
You will also find that stopping the flow on either pole will DE the pump and stop flow to both poles

In an ideal world I would suggest one pump and control per pole  running of a single 110 or 105AH battery this will give you all the pressure and flow you need to the two poles and the pumps will be operating more efficiently. Each pump will likely pull 2 - 3 amps an hour so your battery use would not change.

Alternatively you can use manual taps on the two poles which will allow you to adjust the head of pressure between the two poles. In effect in my example above you would restrict the water flow to pole one by closing the tap forcing more of the water to pole two by where the tap would be open more.

Hope this is of help

Ian

[Fieldsy]

Hi Ian,


Thanks for the informative reply, and a very interesting article to read 

I've shortened all the wires both to the battery and to the pump from the controller and it seems a whole lot better. Good pressure from both poles now, so much that we are considering turning the flow down now !!...lol.

I have reconnected the pressure switch on the pump aswell.

The only difference we have now is that, before the pressure was connected the controller would read DE every three seconds, the pump would pulse and then controller would show flow value again (86). This is obviously when both poles are turned off.

Now, instead of DE, we have PS flashing every 3 secs but no pulse through the pump.

Other than that everything is working fine ))

Thanks again mate

cheers Paul.

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Paul pleased to help. Glad the system is working better.

Now you have reconnected the PS you may want to run the auto cal again. The Control does not activate the Pump PS it is letting you know it has activated.

Sounds a daft thing to say however the pump PS activating would suggest pressure in the system is quite high no surprise there with the pump supplying two poles.
What is happening is because the pump is running quite close to the PS the PS is stopping the pump rather than the control dead ending the pump.
Running auto cal again will allow the control to find the normal operating pressure of your system then when the flow is turned off the control will stop the pump before the PS.
One of the roles of the control is to protect the pump from high pressure shut down.

Glad the system is working as you expect it to

Cheers

Ian

[Fieldsy]

Hi Ian,

Makes much more sense, thanks.

So basically, what you are saying is, the pressure is/has built up in the system and triggering the PS issue (as the pressure is constant once the poles are off). If we auto cal, the system will find the correct pressure and the error will stop as there is no build up ??.

If it persists after auto cal, is there anything to worry about ??

This seems a better option of having PS flashing as opposed to DE as with DE flashing the pump was continuously pulsed every 3 seconds.

I'm assuminfg that if PS is flashing it will put strain on the pump pressure switch.


Which is the better of two evils ....lol

Thanks again Ian.

[Fieldsy]

sorry Ian, just one more thing, I know the pole should be extended on AUTO CAL, but should the pole trigger/valve be open or closed on the longest pole??

thanks

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Paul

It is better for the pump that the controller to dead it when the flow stops as there is less pressure in the system when the pump stops as opposed to relying on the pump PS
You are right having the pressure switch stop the pump means the pressure will be close if not above the max the pump is capable of perhaps  100 - 120 psi. Also the pump motor will have a high inductive load (stored energy) as the pump motor stops under this high pressure and inductive load you get arching across the pressure switch which will ultimately burn out.

With the control dead ending the pump pressure is lower probably between 70 - 90psi as the pump stops. Also because the motor is turning slower there is less risk of arching across the PS

While the control does not directly create pressure in the system it does monitor pressure. By calibrating the control we are telling the control what the normally operating pressure is with water flowing, plus the low and high end pressure.

Once the flow is stopped the motor tries to push against the restriction for a short time, this builds pressure because the control knows the normal and hi end pressure level. it sees this sudden build up and shuts down the pump before it hits the PS. Adjusting the calibration number effects how fast the control will stop EG a low calibration setting will stop the pump very quickly a higher calibration setting means the control is less sensitive and allows the pressure to build a little more before stopping the pump.

In both cases we would expect the control to stop the pump before pressure can trip the pressure switch. While the control can run two poles it is more difficult to manage the different pressures in the two poles. It will be interesting to see the impact of resetting the calibration.
As a general rule if the pump pressure switch is activating it will be caused by some kind of restriction or blockage, That said with a one pump two pole system the control may react a little differently.

At the end of the day if the system does what you need it to do and operates as you expect that is what we are after.

When setting the auto cal you want the tap open so there is water flow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kKoskb7l7c&list=UL

Hope that all makes sense.

Cheers

Ian

[Fieldsy]

Thanks Ian, perfect explanation
I will set the auto cal and see what happens and will get back to you.

Will do this Monday, as partner has the van and we have finished for the weekend as weather is dire in essex...lol

Have a good weekend mate

cheers

Paul