[G Griffin]

Not chasing your outstanding dept is defying every principal of business. I have made a point of running a payed up book. You do not need to spend anymore than a few minutes each day. Its not a matter of been a 10 calls a day man, but more like persistent.
Letting the customer knows you are aware he/she still owes  you money as all the person wants is the dept to go away.Your job is to let him /her know it has not.

I am sure the words " out of sight out of minds " rings true. I WILL NOT ALLOW IT TO BE OUT OF MIND. The customer I have just chased has been a customer for  years, and I thought was good for this dept. But not this time.
I for one, will chase all dept and if the customers thinks they can get away with it, think again.
Its part my business policy.
I have been is business for 44 years in different business, and I know from experience its a sound policy to have.

 
I disagree with that, unless you'd like to list them prove otherwise.
And I think you take it too personally. It's a cliche but business isn't personal.
The time and effort chasing a debt has got to be weighed up and if it's worth pursuing, do it, if not, write it off.
Sometimes I think the time wasted on bad customers would be better used providing a service for the good ones.

[pdale]

Not chasing your outstanding dept is defying every principal of business.

I agree totally. Though I feel chasing is probably the wrong word to use, a phone call, a text or a knock does not stop you from canvassing to get more work. If I have done these things and the customer avoids me and still owes by next month, then there is little point in cleaning them the following month if the signs are there that they are a bad payer. There is no reason for outstanding debt to get out of control to the point of hundreds, let alone thousands.

It has amazed me if i'm honest that there are a number here who feel that collecting debt gets in the way of growing your business, if collecting is organised correctly there is no need for it to get in the way.

[roundbuilder]

hi mick do you work on your own?thats a lot of "rolling debt" money to be owed?mines more like £300-£500 at anyone time!sometimes it goes up to a grand but soon goes back down again.

i have very few that owe me more than 2 cleans and then its only customers i know  will pay eventually.

lots of my customers either pay me on day of clean or send cheques/bacs payments within a few weeks.i also go collecting for an hour or so once a week on very compact estate work.

regards


dazmond

No mate i have 2 £5k rounds. When i was on my own and collecting 3 times a week i had verey small debts like yourself but it is not possible to chase them now as have so many. I still have more money than i need without collecting whats owed  to me and records show i get it all at the end hence why it doesnt bother me so much. many of my customers let it build up few cleans before sending a cheque, just part of the game.

[roundbuilder]

Not chasing your outstanding dept is defying every principal of business.

I agree totally. Though I feel chasing is probably the wrong word to use, a phone call, a text or a knock does not stop you from canvassing to get more work. If I have done these things and the customer avoids me and still owes by next month, then there is little point in cleaning them the following month if the signs are there that they are a bad payer. There is no reason for outstanding debt to get out of control to the point of hundreds, let alone thousands.

It has amazed me if i'm honest that there are a number here who feel that collecting debt gets in the way of growing your business, if collecting is organised correctly there is no need for it to get in the way.

Come on then mr know it all. Explain further??

To me worrying about customers oweing or paying late £10/£15/£20 is stupid. Verey rarely would a customer simply not pay unless they feel you do a crap job.

I have 1100 odd customers, soon to be more with third round, just over a third pay on the day, a third online and cheque payments and the rest let it just wait for to double/treble up next time or wait until they are in when im there doing the clean! Why lose sleep over chasing debt??.

[richard jagger]

The problem with our industry is. WE dont see ourselves as one. If we did we would be concerned with the image we have. Many customers see us as rag tag bunch not worthy of payment.By not insisting on payment confirms this perception. If we all did do our best to collect outstanding debts this perception would change quickly. "I have already got the reputation of a good window clean but not bull."

[Tom White]

It's rare I've ever been knocked by a customer; maybe five-or-six times in total; definitely under ten.

The biggest one was £70; I remember that one.

It used to annoy me, but I now just let it go.  I'm not going to stress or spend time chasing debts; or lose sleep over it.

I find that once you're established it happens extremely rarely too.  The £70 was a contractor - a fellow window cleaner who I think was struggling himself last year during the rainy season (most of last year).

There's people like builders who don't only charge for labour; but spend thousands on materials and staff; it's those guys I feel sorry for when they get knocked.

[Richard iSparkle]

I am similar to Tosh in this aspect.

I am learning to let it go if people owe me money.  We send some letters, including solictors letters but after that we let them go.

Most customers will pay quickly, and it's really uncommon for people to not pay in the end.

I find the more i deal with customers who complain, or owe us money aren;t paying, and hassle...  the less I enjoy running my own business...  and the less i enjoy my work, the less energy I put into expanding and improving my business.

[pdale]

Come on then mr know it all. Explain further??

To me worrying about customers oweing or paying late £10/£15/£20 is stupid. Verey rarely would a customer simply not pay unless they feel you do a crap job.

I have 1100 odd customers, soon to be more with third round, just over a third pay on the day, a third online and cheque payments and the rest let it just wait for to double/treble up next time or wait until they are in when im there doing the clean! Why lose sleep over chasing debt??.

No need for name calling Mick.

If a customer feels you have done a crap job surely it's up to you find that out? One thing i make clear to all my customers is that  if i have done a bad job then let me know.

You seem be equating collecting debt with chasing debt, which is where in my opinion this thread has gone off on a tangent. Surely you have all your customers phone numbers when you canvas or take them  on? It's as easy as sending a text or phone call. If you were to spend half hour, 40 minutes, 1 hour etc on a job, spending another 5 minutes on the phone as a reminder to pay is not a bad thing.

If i were to have hundreds or thousands of £££'s of bad debt, spending a few hours or even a day collecting that is not out of the question ... and then drop those customers from next month as you know you are going to have the same problem again.

If it's hundreds paying someone to collect it on the door is not out of the question ... If you are sitting on £2500 of bad debt you can even pay me 50% of it, i'll come down to Kent over a weekend collect it for you and we'd both be happy 

[roundbuilder]

Come on then mr know it all. Explain further??

To me worrying about customers oweing or paying late £10/£15/£20 is stupid. Verey rarely would a customer simply not pay unless they feel you do a crap job.

I have 1100 odd customers, soon to be more with third round, just over a third pay on the day, a third online and cheque payments and the rest let it just wait for to double/treble up next time or wait until they are in when im there doing the clean! Why lose sleep over chasing debt??.

No need for name calling Mick.

If a customer feels you have done a crap job surely it's up to you find that out? One thing i make clear to all my customers is that  if i have done a bad job then let me know.

You seem be equating collecting debt with chasing debt, which is where in my opinion this thread has gone off on a tangent. Surely you have all your customers phone numbers when you canvas or take them  on? It's as easy as sending a text or phone call. If you were to spend half hour, 40 minutes, 1 hour etc on a job, spending another 5 minutes on the phone as a reminder to pay is not a bad thing.

If i were to have hundreds or thousands of £££'s of bad debt, spending a few hours or even a day collecting that is not out of the question ... and then drop those customers from next month as you know you are going to have the same problem again.

If it's hundreds paying someone to collect it on the door is not out of the question ... If you are sitting on £2500 of bad debt you can even pay me 50% of it, i'll come down to Kent over a weekend collect it for you and we'd both be happy  

Im not name calling and appologise if it came accross that way just you dont see the bigger picture.
you are missing the point, i explained the £2500 or in factn £2700 that it is at the mo isnt an issue as its always around that figure momth in month out and every customer pays me sooner or later. Its paranoidd window cleaners that are over exadurating the topic.
the only customers i have had mess me about or refuse to pay are when i do a crap job which i respect as id do the same, a lot of window cleaners blame it on the customer for there rubbish attempt of a first clean for the reason of dumping for lack of payment, i have seen it so many times from canvassing with the storys new customers tell me and they are right if not happy then why should they pay and the flip side if they are happy then why would they mess you about???
And its a no to phoning them or chasing them to pay as we return every 4 weeks and slip them which gently reminds them without sounding desperate ringing them asking to pay me the £10 they owe, i see it as sounding desperate. I can count on 1 hand the amount i have stopped cleaning due to not paying/refusing to pay so for me my method and way of dealing with it is working fine.
Learn to trust your customers more as none of them expect you to clean there windows and not pay you for it just like we dont expect to get paid if we dont clean them or do a poor job.
Anyway im glad i dont suffer from the paranoia of some on here otherwise id be crying myself to sleep each night worrying if mrs smith will be in to pay me my £10 and if shes not in and doesnt pay me online within 7 days ill dump her and lose out on £120 a year from her(verey business savvy.......not).

Another good example is my gardiner, i owe him for 3 months worth of mowing and will pay him cash when i see him. If he rung me after 1 month and said can you pay me your balance id prob tell him where to go afterwards as to me it makes him sound desperate however he is a nice chap and knows ill pay when i see him as im crap with making online payments as cant be botherd unless i get time which is hardly ever.

[C o z y]

Good points being posted in this thread. The one point I can't get my head round is some of us seem to think we come across as desperate if we insist on being paid? Try not paying the pizza delivery guy, or your icecream guy when he hands over a cornet to your kid.

I do a lot of collecting, and the normal state of payments owed from over 350 customers is around 20 to 30 will have not paid because of various reasons. My average price is €17 (about 15 quid ). As long as I don't clean more than twice without payment, then the most I could lose is €34. (average house here takes about 15 minutes, before the experts start taking the micky, they're army quarters for married soldiers, and nearly all the same. We don't clean anything bigger than 3 bed semi's here)

I've taken customers to small claims court over here for less than 50 quid. I've always won, but the hassle and time it takes isn't worth it really.

I understand Mick's point and attitude, and also Pdale's point. It's upto the individual in the end.

As for appearing desperate, to me, expecting to be paid isn't desperate. Working on Sundays on domestics and walking round the back of some custy's house while they're having a BBQ makes us look desperate.

[G Griffin]

I think (looks like to me) we are getting wires crossed a little bit here
No one is saying you can't collect or chase a debt but there comes a point where you are spending more time/ money chasing it than its worth.

Darran

I agree with Darran's post.
It's not about not expecting payment or not chasing up a payment. What the disagreements are about are the levels some people will go to to get their money.
On this forum I've heard people threatening to kick doors down, heard people prepared to do criminal damage to locks and that's just two examples. That is more damaging to this industry than someone letting a few quid go.
Big businesses take a knock sometimes; it's expected. But they don't let it get personal.

I'd sooner lose the money by doing the right thing rather than get paid by acting like an idiot. 

[Tom White]

But they don't let it get personal.

Spot on.  You're quite bright for someone from Wigan.

[andyM]

I think it's extremely rare to have a customer who will knock you for money deliberately.
More likely that a customer who doesn't pay you regularly is either very disorganised with financial matters or has other things going in in their life (maybe an unstable relationship, serious illness, money problems etc.).
Whatever the reason I reckon it's always best to not take it personally.
Some will pay you in the end........and some won't.
I don't spend a lot of time chasing debt because it's rare that I don't receive payment. But if I have to chase money up it's through one or two text reminders and then if no joy I will just drop them from the round.
But I don't take it personally, I just remove them from the round which brings closure and replace them with another name on the list and move on.
No point getting stressed over a few quid.

[home6442]

Clean payment or no second clean.
Yes a customer can forget to pay but if reminded then there should be no excuse.
Would your customers be happy if they didn't get paid at the end of the week or month I
think not.
Mutual respect if you do a job you should get paid within the time agreed No excuses.
Here is one to think about, maybe the customer would be quicker to pay if they valued your
work and where afraid to lose your services.

[Tom White]

Clean payment or no second clean.

I disagree.  I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.

I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance).  A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).

I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception).  Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.

[G Griffin]

Some of my customers often offer to go to the cash machine to get my money. I tell them don't go specially for me, especially if they've been to work. I just say I'll call again or let them pay another way.
They seem to appreciate not having to trail out and it's no big deal to me.
I once offered a young, single mum to leave payment until the next time, as she was clearly emptying her purse to pay me. I could see the relief on her face, as she clearly needed that cash more than I did. I still think she remembers that and she became a lot friendlier (not like that  ).
Maybe I'm too soft or maybe it's just good PR.

[roundbuilder]

Clean payment or no second clean.

I disagree.  I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.

I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance).  A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).

I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception).  Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.

You have the same mentality as me with customers! We all know they will pay! A fool would simply dump for the sake of them owing£10/20 i like you let it go to 6 cleans and havnt had 1 not pay in the end where i decide to stop doing them this year yet so defo a lot of uneccasary dumping going on, all good though which means lots of lovely customers wanting a window cleaner! If others dont want there money i certanly will.

[home6442]

Clean payment or no second clean.

I disagree.  I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.

I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance).  A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).

I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception).  Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.

You have the same mentality as me with customers! We all know they will pay! A fool would simply dump for the sake of them owing£10/20 i like you let it go to 6 cleans and havnt had 1 not pay in the end where i decide to stop doing them this year yet so defo a lot of uneccasary dumping going on, all good though which means lots of lovely customers wanting a window cleaner! If others dont want there money i certanly will.

I have had about 5 non payers in 5 years and if I had let them go to 6 cleans then that would be 30 cleans
that I wouldn't have got paid for.
I have a question.
You only have room for 10 new customers so you have
the choice of taking on 10 customers that pay on time every time
or 10 who pay but when it suits them so who would you pick ?
Yes I will dump anybody who doesn't pay before the next clean is due and your more than welcome
to them.
If I am a fool because I have built a round of good quick paying customers then yes I am a fool.

[roundbuilder]

Clean payment or no second clean.

I disagree.  I've loads of customers who double and treble up and pay no problems when I catch them in; or they get their finger out - feeling guilty maybe - and pay their back payments online.

I even clean the windows of one guy and I let the payments go six months in arrears, and then he pays me for the whole year (so I end up six months paid in advance).  A year later he's six-months-in-arrears and then he pays me for a year (repeat).

I don't worry about getting paid; I always get paid in the end (with the odd rare exception).  Of course, if you're skint and near the breadline, and every penny counts (and I've been there), not getting paid in a timely manner can be frustrating.

You have the same mentality as me with customers! We all know they will pay! A fool would simply dump for the sake of them owing£10/20 i like you let it go to 6 cleans and havnt had 1 not pay in the end where i decide to stop doing them this year yet so defo a lot of uneccasary dumping going on, all good though which means lots of lovely customers wanting a window cleaner! If others dont want there money i certanly will.

I have had about 5 non payers in 5 years and if I had let them go to 6 cleans then that would be 30 cleans
that I wouldn't have got paid for.
I have a question.
You only have room for 10 new customers so you have
the choice of taking on 10 customers that pay on time every time
or 10 who pay but when it suits them so who would you pick ?
Yes I will dump anybody who doesn't pay before the next clean is due and your more than welcome
to them.
If I am a fool because I have built a round of good quick paying customers then yes I am a fool.

It depends on how desperate you are to collect your money or not! People are humans so you can not sit there and say every one of your customers pays on time as it just doesnt happen like that.
To me a fool is someone building up there business who drops a customer because they havnt payed within the 7 days requested or before the next clean on there collection card. Wether mine pay on time each month or 3 months late at the end of the year my taking will be the same as they all pay one way or another without the need to stree and worry a out it.

[dazmond]

for me a customer owing me 2 or 3 cleans is enough.i stop cleaning them until payment is received but it usually gets paid.this is on monthly jobs.

so say a 2 monthly customers owes you 3 cleans.are you gonna wait 6-7 months for your money?

if its a monthly customer then if you clean them 6 times thats 6 months without payment?even if they work abroad you could text them with bank details so they can pay by BACS even if their in dubai!(one of my customers does this).

i have customers who pay 6 months in advance or a few cleans in advance no problem but i dont let customer rack up 5 or 6 cleans in arrears.

my cashflow is very good all year round.dipping a bit in august due to holidays but not too much.my takings are usually roughly the same as ive earned in any given month,sometimes more.

i suppose the bigger you get the more rolling debt you have.even the commercial jobs i have either pay on the day or within a few weeks.


regards


dazmond