[Swcs]

I am looking for a digital flow controller.
Just started running 2 pumps off one battery, seems only to last from 9am - 3pm until it dies.

However with a pump controller I would be able to diagnose any problems.

Any suggestions please, considering value for money.

Many thanks!

[Tom White]

We run two pumps from one battery; get 500 litres pumped comfortably and we don't use flow controllers anymore.

If your battery isn't up to scratch, your flow controller won't work at all; you won't get a flow.  Working without a flow controller means we can work with a degraded battery.

What size battery (amp hour) are you using and how old is it?  I use a 115 amp hour battery; two years old and have no problems.

[Swcs]

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/90-ah-ultra-plus-agm-leisure-battery/

This is my battery. I have had it for about 2 years.

I would love to be able to run the pumps without a controller ideally, how would i check if the battery is knackered?

[CleanClear]

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/90-ah-ultra-plus-agm-leisure-battery/

This is my battery. I have had it for about 2 years.

I would love to be able to run the pumps without a controller ideally, how would i check if the battery is knackered?

I think you have already checked. You've said it last from 9am till 3pm then it dies. What more do you think a digital controller will tell you ? You've upgraded to two pumps too, now upgrade your battery for a 110 amp PH one or higher.

http://www.battery2u.co.uk/Numax-Leisure-Batteries-XV31MF.aspx

£75.50 delivered for a 110 amp hour one.

[Ian Sheppard]

With two pumps you are drawing twice the current. I am guessing you are using 100PSI pumps so each pump is pulling between 7 - 9 amps an hour or 14 - 18 amps an hour in your case. As already suggested if you are running two pumps you will need a a minimum of a 110 amp hour battery.

Although you are getting six hour a day out of the battery currently which is not bad bearing in mind the amp draw. You will find the battery will degrade fairly quickly and hold not hold a charge so well.. as for the best controller well I am biased.
There are some duel controller units out there so one unit will run two pumps independently.

[Swcs]

Thank you all for your swift responses.

It's been a steep learning curve moving from 1 man to a 2 man van...

Your advice is appreciated! 

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

why not just fit a split charger ??

[Ian Sheppard]

A split charge relay can be useful

The amp per hour charge rate is dependent on a number of factors for example the length of time the engine/alternator are running and how quickly they run.
Most alternators are designed to trickle charge a battery so the longer and faster they run the higher the charge rate. (Up to the maximum capacity of the alternator and battery) There is also a restriction based on the maximum capacity of the alternator and battery in any system plus any drop off through the wiring due to resistance.

The ampage per hour rate will drop off as the battery nears full charge, the batteries capacity to take amps drops as the voltage capacity nears its maximum. The only way of physically pushing higher current into the battery would be to increase the Voltage capacity and increase the maximum generating capacity of the Alternator.

Ohms Law  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law

1 Despite the split charger the battery is still not being re-charged fully. Take it out of the van or leave in situ and re-charge each night with a battery charger.

If you take 4-5 amps for 5-6 hours in a working day but spend only 2-3 hours driving (and charging via the split relay) you will simply not put back in, what you have taken out.

2 In the cold weather I think the water is actually harder to pump. The batteries will run flat quicker as the pumps are taking more current.

If the battery is fine then the system looks like it is causing too higher volt drop because it is taking too much current. Reasons for this can be: pump is old/worn, a bad fitting restricting flow or some other flow restriction (dirt, too small jets, too small hose etc). These are the next things to look at.

[david mark]

I use elesco carbon fibre batteries tried the rest these by far the best comes with 5 year waranty

[Scrimble]

ian what is the expected life with the flow controllers? how long are they meant to last for?

[Dave Willis]

Ian, quick question - I have the Spring analogue controller. Just lately my system has been playing up a bit. Everything works fine until I turn the water off at the pole. Occasionally the pump won't come in again when I open the valve back up for half a minute.

If the battery was flat I would expect it to shut the controller down. If the callibration was set too low I would expect the pump to cycle on full flow. If the pump was knackered I would expect it to shut down at any time.

I'm going to change the fuseholder when I get time because I can see some evidence of melted plastic although no damage to the fuse itself.

Anything else I should look for?

[dave0123]

A split charge relay can be useful

The amp per hour charge rate is dependent on a number of factors for example the length of time the engine/alternator are running and how quickly they run.
Most alternators are designed to trickle charge a battery so the longer and faster they run the higher the charge rate. (Up to the maximum capacity of the alternator and battery) There is also a restriction based on the maximum capacity of the alternator and battery in any system plus any drop off through the wiring due to resistance.

The ampage per hour rate will drop off as the battery nears full charge, the batteries capacity to take amps drops as the voltage capacity nears its maximum. The only way of physically pushing higher current into the battery would be to increase the Voltage capacity and increase the maximum generating capacity of the Alternator.

Hi Ian,

Whats the maximum amp hour the flow controller with the split relay can put into a battery per hour? or again is it based on how fast the alternator runs?

[Ian Sheppard]

A split charge relay can be useful

The amp per hour charge rate is dependent on a number of factors for example the length of time the engine/alternator are running and how quickly they run.
Most alternators are designed to trickle charge a battery so the longer and faster they run the higher the charge rate. (Up to the maximum capacity of the alternator and battery) There is also a restriction based on the maximum capacity of the alternator and battery in any system plus any drop off through the wiring due to resistance.

The ampage per hour rate will drop off as the battery nears full charge, the batteries capacity to take amps drops as the voltage capacity nears its maximum. The only way of physically pushing higher current into the battery would be to increase the Voltage capacity and increase the maximum generating capacity of the Alternator.

Hi Ian,

Whats the maximum amp hour the flow controller with the split relay can put into a battery per hour? or again is it based on how fast the alternator runs?

Hi Dave Good question. The controller its self is not generating any current to the leisure battery. The current will all come from the Alternator. The charging controller is monitoring the state of both batteries and will open the relay once the engine is switched on. Providing the voltage at the leisure battery is below that of the vehicle battery current will flow between the two. The relay will only allow current flow from the alternator to the leisure battery but not the other way.

The short answer is the amount of current going back will be dependent on the Speed of the alternator and how long it runs. The alternator will only trickle charge the leisure battery and the closer to full the battery gets the less current it takes. "Ohms Law"
We are also dependent on how efficient the alternator is together with the quality of the cable and connections. We tend to fit 2.5mm cable to our chargers as it helps the efficiency of current transfer

Spruce has posted some very informative information this thread is one I could find there are others.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160694.0

[dave0123]

Thanks Ian,

Interesting.. i ask because i have a 110 amp hour battery in the back of the van and ive not once had to charge this from the mains all the split relay from your controller has charged it  up since around march time i think. the current volt on the leisure before was 12.6 Volts.


Dont get me wrong am made up! am just surprised i haven't had to top it up, which i will do i once i get myself a leisure battery charger.

[Dave Willis]

I run mine from one of the vans batteries (Toyota Hiace has two) I have no split charger and the batteries are seven years old. My round is within two miles of my house. I'm amazed I've got away with it for the last couple of years. 

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

I run mine from one of the vans batteries (Toyota Hiace has two) I have no split charger and the batteries are seven years old. My round is within two miles of my house. I'm amazed I've got away with it for the last couple of years.  

I could throw in a little "told you so" here but...................... that's not for now.

[Dave Willis]

I wasted about £500 on batteries before I tried it. 

[evo]

I run one pump off the van battery for the last 2 years with out any problems doing no more than 5 miles a day and the other pump runs off a old van battery witch i charge every night.

[Ian Sheppard]

ian what is the expected life with the flow controllers? how long are they meant to last for?

Good question Scrimble. The current V11 version of the controls have new software platform and a new PCB this means there are much more efficient in a number of ways. For example the smart battery function directs any unused current back to the battery meaning the excess current is not heating the control or pump.

The life span of the control used properly should be years. i stlil come across V1 and V3 units that we stopped build 5 - 6 years ago. The V9 which we have built over the last 3 years are still out there working well.
Like most electronics if used at its maximum capacity all the time the life expectancy would be less.

[Ian Sheppard]

ian what is the expected life with the flow controllers? how long are they meant to last for?