[G O Cleaning]

I have noticed a few posts on here where guys have stated they are using self employed staff - seen similar comments on other areas of the forum. For those which do, how many hrs are these 'workers' actually working for you ? Obvious benefits but if they are working more than just say 'part time hrs' and using your kit / van etc surely this is a big risk ? Or maybe the rules have changed ?

[Rob_Mac]

Mike

This is how I work.

To get round it they need to have their own work as well and be presenting proof that they aren't just working for you, ie invoicing other people

Rob

[BDCS]

My bloke is a self employed decorator - ex ground worker. He works Mon & Tues for me plus other days that I need him and sends an invoice for the days worked

[G O Cleaning]

Mike

This is how I work.

To get round it they need to have their own work as well and be presenting proof that they aren't just working for you, ie invoicing other people

Rob

I understand how it works but simply invoicing other clients may not cut it. If the majority of the work they carry out is for u especially if they use your kit van, no right to substitute workers workers etc they could be deemed to be employed via yourself by hm rev u could be liable for all unpaid ni payee etc
Unless rules have changed ? I need to recheck this with my accountant

[Rob_Mac]

Mike

Everyone I use is a business in their own right, a builder, a plasterer and a scaffolder. They aren't just saying they don't work for me.

It is a very grey area though

Rob

[BDCS]

There are agencys that sort this for you, they cross invoice the different firms for the workers in the pool. The blokes invoice the agency and the agency invoices to supply labour.

[Roger Oakley]

This is how I remember it working for self-employed,
Schedule D numer and NI Number, and OWN tools.

Used to work in an industry where my laptop was all I needed, so own tool.

I also have used SE persons for finishing some jobs, as long as I have had a schedule D and NI number from said persons then don't see what the problem is and don't really see where HMRC will have a problem, it is when you start to use a SE person 52 weeks of the year and you are their only employer, then it get's a bit messy.

[G O Cleaning]

Mike

Everyone I use is a business in their own right, a builder, a plasterer and a scaffolder. They aren't just saying they don't work for me.

It is a very grey area though

Rob

Rob, Do you actually employ anyone 

Carl I used to work as a 'ltd' company (different industry) working for agency's (for over 12 yrs) for some contracts I was based at a clients for over 6mths, gov / hm introduced IR35, agencies sprung up cross invoicing encouraged off shore accounts etc, they failed once they were investigated. Lots of guys moved to America to escape new imposed tax it even effects drawing dividends etc.

As said if only a few days per wk not a problem, but if its a longer duration I would be concerned as it could potentially cost a fortune in back pay, Will check with ac.

[Rob_Mac]

Mike

No I don't

Rob

[chris scott]

Mike

No I don't

Rob

So we are the same...me and you.
Just a couple of muppets with a second hand pressure washer strapped in an rusty old transit van. Blagging people we are the best in the business and know what we are doing!
Ahh true love ..

[BDCS]

I must be posher than you pair as my washer was new  I don't think Roger was peddling yank junk when I was in the market for a new machine - there I go again I bought new, Sorry. I do have some rust patches coming through on my Transit though, It wasn't new 

[Rob_Mac]

My Thor was brand new .

My attitude is that there is a lot of good second hand kit out there because there are a lot of new starts who think it is a piece of cake an then they fall on their a*ses, when they realise you have to put a lot of work in, the kit turns up one Ebay - half price!

I spend a lot of time looking for the right kit, just looking for a box van at the moment, to throw the Farrow System into.

Rob

[Rob_Mac]

Chris

I honestly don't think we are alike.

You have created a fixation with me and want an online bromance, possibly more. I can understand that and it is okay,you look up to me and see me as a role model. 

It is one way and I cannot help you with it.

A quick search has brought this up http://www.g-bar.com/

It may help out. I don't want to go, before you ask!

Rob

[G O Cleaning]

Mike

No I don't

Rob

Rob you surprise me, given the work you mention - seems one hell of a risk.

I have been advised rules havent changed, SE staff ok for occasional work (even this is subject if they use your kit etc) but for anything else employ or you could find yourself liable will continue to employ.

[BDCS]

I'd rather be told off by HMCT than employ a muppet - cross the bridge if you ever come to it. I think even the gov may realise its better to have employment of some sort and take them on full time as things get more stable - it'll only get worse when the pensoin rules kick in 

[TN Cleaning Services Ltd]

In my experience, (most, not all) employees don't seem to be as dedicated to the work you are doing and dont understand or maybe just dont care too much about what you are trying to achive.
Self employed staff are dedicated, because while they are doing the work you put to them,
 its also running their own business so they are wanting to do the best job they can.
Tim.

[chris scott]

Chris

I honestly don't think we are alike.

You have created a fixation with me and want an online bromance, possibly more. I can understand that and it is okay,you look up to me and see me as a role model.  

It is one way and I cannot help you with it.

A quick search has brought this up http://www.g-bar.com/

It may help out. I don't want to go, before you ask!

Rob

We use to go in the g-bar before Garlands  http://www.garlandsonline.com/ ...happy daze full of Mdma.

[G O Cleaning]

I would suggest if you are going to see the 'author' run this by him. Be interesting to see if he thinks running a company is simply 'taking' on self employed or actually employing company staff and going legit.

[Matt Gibson]

Interesting info Mike,

Im just coming up to this point in the business, was hoping to get self employed for a few days a week just to make things easier, but ill have to get some advice from the accountant.  I always thought a couple of days a week would be ok, but as you say, if you get busier and it becomes a full weeks worth etc.. then you might run into problems.

[G O Cleaning]

Interesting info Mike,

Im just coming up to this point in the business, was hoping to get self employed for a few days a week just to make things easier, but ill have to get some advice from the accountant.  I always thought a couple of days a week would be ok, but as you say, if you get busier and it becomes a full weeks worth etc.. then you might run into problems.

Matt, Lot of waffle on here main reason guys use se its CHEAPER full stop.