[PoleKing]

Steve, not to start a H&S row but a genuine question.
Asking as you are probably more in the know and I imagine will have done some homework.

Has anyone ever actually been electrocuted whilst cleaning a solar panel that you know of?

[telfordwindowclnr]

Hi Darren.  Guys in other countries have been seriously injured or killed in other countries whilst installing or cleaning solar panels.  Incidents have arisen from falls and electrocution.

I have not been able to find a specific case of electrocution whilst cleaning panels here, probably because it is still so new in the UK.  Odds are firmly on it happening to someone at some point though, due to the volume of window cleaners and others who are just adding it to their list of services without knowing the facts about what the risks are.  Even some firefighters in other countries, who will all know are trained to the nth degree are told not to tackle a PV fire due to the risks, but to let the building burn to the ground.

I keep saying it, much to people's annoyance, but solar cleaning carries a sizable increase in risk from window cleaning.  Every window cleaner can clean solar panels, but not every window cleaner can do it SAFELY.
Injury in any trade will occur.  Hopefully just not you or I!!!

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1639712


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22462664

[Moderator David@stives]

Hi Steve

Well said, its something I have been saying all along,

What made me think, was one day a couple of years ago, during heavy rain I saw a neighbours electricity cable sparking and banging due to water ingress in the cable, the cable ran across the fascia on a row of terraced houses, then down the external of each house to the fuseboard, this particular house the cable actually went over the window ledge, and that is the place it was sparking.

I wondered if I was cleaning the windows at that time with the carbon pole resting on the ledge, where it was sparking what the outcome would be ? probably death, i assume.

Now with solar PV the electricity it produces runs down cables, mostly down the external of the house somewhre near the PV panels, probably across the metal frames which mount the panels, this is where the problem Lies

Steve

One question I would ask, is why you so readily sub contract out cleaning of panels, armed with your knowledge.

Do you vet your subbys, and ask them to provide appropriate RAMS, dont take this as a pop at you.

Do you reccommend that there should be more regs in the cleaning of solar panels ?

To anyone else cleaning solar panels, I would strongly reccommend to stop using carbon fibre poles when cleaning them, If you do continue to clean I would reccommend you use Glass Fibre poles only.

There is much more research required on this subject, but in the meantime please be careful and fully assess the risks before you clean, if nothing else, at least know where the cables are running

[8weekly]

Hi Darren.  Guys in other countries have been seriously injured or killed in other countries whilst installing or cleaning solar panels.  Incidents have arisen from falls and electrocution.

I have not been able to find a specific case of electrocution whilst cleaning panels here, probably because it is still so new in the UK.  Odds are firmly on it happening to someone at some point though, due to the volume of window cleaners and others who are just adding it to their list of services without knowing the facts about what the risks are.  Even some firefighters in other countries, who will all know are trained to the nth degree are told not to tackle a PV fire due to the risks, but to let the building burn to the ground.

I keep saying it, much to people's annoyance, but solar cleaning carries a sizable increase in risk from window cleaning.  Every window cleaner can clean solar panels, but not every window cleaner can do it SAFELY.
Injury in any trade will occur.  Hopefully just not you or I!!!

Like you?

[8weekly]

Hi Steve

Well said, its something I have been saying all along,

What made me think, was one day a couple of years ago, during heavy rain I saw a neighbours electricity cable sparking and banging due to water ingress in the cable, the cable ran across the fascia on a row of terraced houses, then down the external of each house to the fuseboard, this particular house the cable actually went over the window ledge, and that is the place it was sparking.

I wondered if I was cleaning the windows at that time with the carbon pole resting on the ledge, where it was sparking what the outcome would be ? probably death, i assume.

Now with solar PV the electricity it produces runs down cables, mostly down the external of the house somewhre near the PV panels, probably across the metal frames which mount the panels, this is where the problem Lies

Steve
.One question I would ask, is why you so readily sub contract out cleaning of panels, armed with your knowledge.

Do you vet your subbys, and ask them to provide appropriate RAMS, dont take this as a pop at you.

Do you reccommend that there should be more regs in the cleaning of solar panels ?

To anyone else cleaning solar panels, I would strongly reccommend to stop using carbon fibre poles when cleaning them, If you do continue to clean I would reccommend you use Glass Fibre poles only.

There is much more research required on this subject, but in the meantime please be careful and fully assess the risks before you clean, if nothing else, at least know where the cables are running

Lol

[Alex Wingrove]

Hi Darren.  Guys in other countries have been seriously injured or killed in other countries whilst installing or cleaning solar panels.  Incidents have arisen from falls and electrocution.

I have not been able to find a specific case of electrocution whilst cleaning panels here, probably because it is still so new in the UK.  Odds are firmly on it happening to someone at some point though, due to the volume of window cleaners and others who are just adding it to their list of services without knowing the facts about what the risks are.  Even some firefighters in other countries, who will all know are trained to the nth degree are told not to tackle a PV fire due to the risks, but to let the building burn to the ground.

I keep saying it, much to people's annoyance, but solar cleaning carries a sizable increase in risk from window cleaning.  Every window cleaner can clean solar panels, but not every window cleaner can do it SAFELY.
Injury in any trade will occur.  Hopefully just not you or I!!!

Like you?

20,000 panels cleaned isn't really an add on

[telfordwindowclnr]

Hi Darren.  Guys in other countries have been seriously injured or killed in other countries whilst installing or cleaning solar panels.  Incidents have arisen from falls and electrocution.

I have not been able to find a specific case of electrocution whilst cleaning panels here, probably because it is still so new in the UK.  Odds are firmly on it happening to someone at some point though, due to the volume of window cleaners and others who are just adding it to their list of services without knowing the facts about what the risks are.  Even some firefighters in other countries, who will all know are trained to the nth degree are told not to tackle a PV fire due to the risks, but to let the building burn to the ground.

I keep saying it, much to people's annoyance, but solar cleaning carries a sizable increase in risk from window cleaning.  Every window cleaner can clean solar panels, but not every window cleaner can do it SAFELY.
Injury in any trade will occur.  Hopefully just not you or I!!!

Like you?

20,000 panels cleaned isn't really an add on

24,000....with more to come this week.

[richard jagger]

I have got electrocuted when I receive my elect bill. Its Always a shock.

[telfordwindowclnr]

Hi Steve

Well said, its something I have been saying all along,

What made me think, was one day a couple of years ago, during heavy rain I saw a neighbours electricity cable sparking and banging due to water ingress in the cable, the cable ran across the fascia on a row of terraced houses, then down the external of each house to the fuseboard, this particular house the cable actually went over the window ledge, and that is the place it was sparking.

I wondered if I was cleaning the windows at that time with the carbon pole resting on the ledge, where it was sparking what the outcome would be ? probably death, i assume.

Now with solar PV the electricity it produces runs down cables, mostly down the external of the house somewhre near the PV panels, probably across the metal frames which mount the panels, this is where the problem Lies

Steve

One question I would ask, is why you so readily sub contract out cleaning of panels, armed with your knowledge.

Do you vet your subbys, and ask them to provide appropriate RAMS, dont take this as a pop at you.

Do you reccommend that there should be more regs in the cleaning of solar panels ?

To anyone else cleaning solar panels, I would strongly reccommend to stop using carbon fibre poles when cleaning them, If you do continue to clean I would reccommend you use Glass Fibre poles only.

There is much more research required on this subject, but in the meantime please be careful and fully assess the risks before you clean, if nothing else, at least know where the cables are running

Hi Dave.

Glad someone out there agrees with me!  

I am happy to sub jobs out to guys, but it is on my terms.  Regarding the safety side of things, there are things I have researched and continue to research which give me a USP.  These are things I will not publish on an open forum.  Major players who have large contracts available dig very deep.  You know that already mate.  AT THE MOMENT, and it is only at the moment, I know answers to questions to keep these guys happy which, others who offer solar panel cleaning as a service do not.  Other companies will eventually catch up.  I'm not stupid enough to think they won't.  

I sub out residential jobs on here to only a handful of people.  You can tell a lot about a company from their website, their attitude on forums, conversations on the phone and emails exchanged.  If I have any doubts about their ability to do the job, they don't get the address.  There are some who perhaps feel they should have got a job because they feel they are capable, but I feel they are not.  I have to make the call.  Due to my time constraints, I have not generally asked for RAMS, but that will be changing very soon.

Commercial jobs are a completely different ball game from a safety point of view and a vetting point of view.  Things are much more stringent with H&S and the vetting process has to be right.  My family and I have been fortunate to travel and meet for the first time one subcontractor and enjoyed their hospitality for a weekend.  This builds friendships and consolidates business relationships.  Not just anyone can get a commercial job from us.

Should there be more regs?  Absolutely.  I come across some shocking (no pun intended) things with this solar game.  There are some outrageous claims and even lies on some websites.  EVERY WEEK now people copy and paste my web content and I ask the company to remove the content and if they don't, we get Google to remove the website.  We have had whole websites removed from Google because they have broken copyright law.  I mention websites first because that is how potential clients are finding solar panel cleaners.  Also, some RAMS that I have been sent from companies pitching for one of the commercial jobs have been very poor.  Phone conversations have enlightened me as to how utterly clueless some people are with this, even though they profess to be professional and trained solar panel cleaners.

This is a potentially dangerous industry, it is not window cleaning.  Window cleaning has it's hazards, I know, I've been doing it 17 years.  But solar ratchets up the risk by quite a few notches.  Plumbers need training and regulating due to risk from gas.  Electricians need training and regulating due to risk from electricity.  Solar panel installers need to be MCS accredited.  What gives us the right to be without a training course or regulation?  Nothing.  We should be trained and we should be regulated for solar cleaning.  One of my very first threads on CIU was about a potential solar panel cleaning training course and it was royally slammed.  We clean solar panels without training because we can, there is nothing available.  But it should not be that way.  The risks associated with solar panel cleaning are too high.  Training and regulation will happen and it can't come soon enough in my opinion.

[8weekly]

Hi Darren.  Guys in other countries have been seriously injured or killed in other countries whilst installing or cleaning solar panels.  Incidents have arisen from falls and electrocution.

I have not been able to find a specific case of electrocution whilst cleaning panels here, probably because it is still so new in the UK.  Odds are firmly on it happening to someone at some point though, due to the volume of window cleaners and others who are just adding it to their list of services without knowing the facts about what the risks are.  Even some firefighters in other countries, who will all know are trained to the nth degree are told not to tackle a PV fire due to the risks, but to let the building burn to the ground.

I keep saying it, much to people's annoyance, but solar cleaning carries a sizable increase in risk from window cleaning.  Every window cleaner can clean solar panels, but not every window cleaner can do it SAFELY.
Injury in any trade will occur.  Hopefully just not you or I!!!

Like you?

20,000 panels cleaned isn't really an add on

It was when he added on the service to his list of jobs and before he got any work.

[telfordwindowclnr]

I knew the facts BEFORE it was added to my list of services, unlike many others.

[Alex Wingrove]

True.


But he knew the facts first

[8weekly]

I knew the facts BEFORE it was added to my list of services, unlike many others.

Make up your mind mate. A few weeks ago you said it took 4 years.

"If you cannot find info about the dangers of cleaning panels with water, I'm afraid you have not dug deep enough. Like I said in my original post on the thread, it has taken me 4 years of research to gather, collate and compute the info for this service. It cannot be done with 'a quick search on the net'."

[Moderator David@stives]

Steve

excellent answer but do ramp up the rams


Davw

[deeege]

Hi Steve

Well said, its something I have been saying all along,

What made me think, was one day a couple of years ago, during heavy rain I saw a neighbours electricity cable sparking and banging due to water ingress in the cable, the cable ran across the fascia on a row of terraced houses, then down the external of each house to the fuseboard, this particular house the cable actually went over the window ledge, and that is the place it was sparking.

I wondered if I was cleaning the windows at that time with the carbon pole resting on the ledge, where it was sparking what the outcome would be ? probably death, i assume.

Now with solar PV the electricity it produces runs down cables, mostly down the external of the house somewhre near the PV panels, probably across the metal frames which mount the panels, this is where the problem Lies

Steve

One question I would ask, is why you so readily sub contract out cleaning of panels, armed with your knowledge.

Do you vet your subbys, and ask them to provide appropriate RAMS, dont take this as a pop at you.

Do you reccommend that there should be more regs in the cleaning of solar panels ?

To anyone else cleaning solar panels, I would strongly reccommend to stop using carbon fibre poles when cleaning them, If you do continue to clean I would reccommend you use Glass Fibre poles only.

There is much more research required on this subject, but in the meantime please be careful and fully assess the risks before you clean, if nothing else, at least know where the cables are running

Hi Dave.

Glad someone out there agrees with me!  

I am happy to sub jobs out to guys, but it is on my terms.  Regarding the safety side of things, there are things I have researched and continue to research which give me a USP.  These are things I will not publish on an open forum.  Major players who have large contracts available dig very deep.  You know that already mate.  AT THE MOMENT, and it is only at the moment, I know answers to questions to keep these guys happy which, others who offer solar panel cleaning as a service do not.  Other companies will eventually catch up.  I'm not stupid enough to think they won't.  

I sub out residential jobs on here to only a handful of people.  You can tell a lot about a company from their website, their attitude on forums, conversations on the phone and emails exchanged.  If I have any doubts about their ability to do the job, they don't get the address.  There are some who perhaps feel they should have got a job because they feel they are capable, but I feel they are not.  I have to make the call.  Due to my time constraints, I have not generally asked for RAMS, but that will be changing very soon.

Commercial jobs are a completely different ball game from a safety point of view and a vetting point of view.  Things are much more stringent with H&S and the vetting process has to be right.  My family and I have been fortunate to travel and meet for the first time one subcontractor and enjoyed their hospitality for a weekend.  This builds friendships and consolidates business relationships.  Not just anyone can get a commercial job from us.

Should there be more regs?  Absolutely.  I come across some shocking (no pun intended) things with this solar game.  There are some outrageous claims and even lies on some websites.  EVERY WEEK now people copy and paste my web content and I ask the company to remove the content and if they don't, we get Google to remove the website.  We have had whole websites removed from Google because they have broken copyright law.  I mention websites first because that is how potential clients are finding solar panel cleaners.  Also, some RAMS that I have been sent from companies pitching for one of the commercial jobs have been very poor.  Phone conversations have enlightened me as to how utterly clueless some people are with this, even though they profess to be professional and trained solar panel cleaners.

This is a potentially dangerous industry, it is not window cleaning.  Window cleaning has it's hazards, I know, I've been doing it 17 years.  But solar ratchets up the risk by quite a few notches.  Plumbers need training and regulating due to risk from gas.  Electricians need training and regulating due to risk from electricity.  Solar panel installers need to be MCS accredited.  What gives us the right to be without a training course or regulation?  Nothing.  We should be trained and we should be regulated for solar cleaning.  One of my very first threads on CIU was about a potential solar panel cleaning training course and it was royally slammed.  We clean solar panels without training because we can, there is nothing available.  But it should not be that way.  The risks associated with solar panel cleaning are too high.  Training and regulation will happen and it can't come soon enough in my opinion.

There is so many contradictions in the bolded paragraph that I couldn't even read the rest of your post.

You are, apparently, so concerned about a prospective subcontractors ability to work for you that you inspect their website, dissect their emails etc yet you don't require any RAMS from them for work which in your own words is likely to kill somebody very soon?

[ben M]

Steve, do you use carbon fibre poles or glass fibre pole?

[PoleKing]

Cheers Steve

[telfordwindowclnr]

Hi Steve

Well said, its something I have been saying all along,

What made me think, was one day a couple of years ago, during heavy rain I saw a neighbours electricity cable sparking and banging due to water ingress in the cable, the cable ran across the fascia on a row of terraced houses, then down the external of each house to the fuseboard, this particular house the cable actually went over the window ledge, and that is the place it was sparking.

I wondered if I was cleaning the windows at that time with the carbon pole resting on the ledge, where it was sparking what the outcome would be ? probably death, i assume.

Now with solar PV the electricity it produces runs down cables, mostly down the external of the house somewhre near the PV panels, probably across the metal frames which mount the panels, this is where the problem Lies

Steve

One question I would ask, is why you so readily sub contract out cleaning of panels, armed with your knowledge.

Do you vet your subbys, and ask them to provide appropriate RAMS, dont take this as a pop at you.

Do you reccommend that there should be more regs in the cleaning of solar panels ?

To anyone else cleaning solar panels, I would strongly reccommend to stop using carbon fibre poles when cleaning them, If you do continue to clean I would reccommend you use Glass Fibre poles only.

There is much more research required on this subject, but in the meantime please be careful and fully assess the risks before you clean, if nothing else, at least know where the cables are running

Hi Dave.

Glad someone out there agrees with me!  

I am happy to sub jobs out to guys, but it is on my terms.  Regarding the safety side of things, there are things I have researched and continue to research which give me a USP.  These are things I will not publish on an open forum.  Major players who have large contracts available dig very deep.  You know that already mate.  AT THE MOMENT, and it is only at the moment, I know answers to questions to keep these guys happy which, others who offer solar panel cleaning as a service do not.  Other companies will eventually catch up.  I'm not stupid enough to think they won't.  

I sub out residential jobs on here to only a handful of people.  You can tell a lot about a company from their website, their attitude on forums, conversations on the phone and emails exchanged.  If I have any doubts about their ability to do the job, they don't get the address.  There are some who perhaps feel they should have got a job because they feel they are capable, but I feel they are not.  I have to make the call.  Due to my time constraints, I have not generally asked for RAMS, but that will be changing very soon.

Commercial jobs are a completely different ball game from a safety point of view and a vetting point of view.  Things are much more stringent with H&S and the vetting process has to be right.  My family and I have been fortunate to travel and meet for the first time one subcontractor and enjoyed their hospitality for a weekend.  This builds friendships and consolidates business relationships.  Not just anyone can get a commercial job from us.

Should there be more regs?  Absolutely.  I come across some shocking (no pun intended) things with this solar game.  There are some outrageous claims and even lies on some websites.  EVERY WEEK now people copy and paste my web content and I ask the company to remove the content and if they don't, we get Google to remove the website.  We have had whole websites removed from Google because they have broken copyright law.  I mention websites first because that is how potential clients are finding solar panel cleaners.  Also, some RAMS that I have been sent from companies pitching for one of the commercial jobs have been very poor.  Phone conversations have enlightened me as to how utterly clueless some people are with this, even though they profess to be professional and trained solar panel cleaners.

This is a potentially dangerous industry, it is not window cleaning.  Window cleaning has it's hazards, I know, I've been doing it 17 years.  But solar ratchets up the risk by quite a few notches.  Plumbers need training and regulating due to risk from gas.  Electricians need training and regulating due to risk from electricity.  Solar panel installers need to be MCS accredited.  What gives us the right to be without a training course or regulation?  Nothing.  We should be trained and we should be regulated for solar cleaning.  One of my very first threads on CIU was about a potential solar panel cleaning training course and it was royally slammed.  We clean solar panels without training because we can, there is nothing available.  But it should not be that way.  The risks associated with solar panel cleaning are too high.  Training and regulation will happen and it can't come soon enough in my opinion.

There is so many contradictions in the bolded paragraph that I couldn't even read the rest of your post.

You are, apparently, so concerned about a prospective subcontractors ability to work for you that you inspect their website, dissect their emails etc yet you don't require any RAMS from them for work which in your own words is likely to kill somebody very soon?

Shame you didn't read the rest. It would have answered your post. Just proves you are better to look at all evidence before making judgments.

[telfordwindowclnr]

Steve

excellent answer but do ramp up the rams


Davw

Will do Dave. Duly noted.