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Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2013, 09:56:19 am »
Don't Tulsion do several different kinds of resin?

I've always used 115 - never had a problem with it. Maybe try someone elses tds meter too?

It is 115 that I have.


Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2013, 10:00:37 am »
Update

Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.

TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.

TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).

TDS in the tank after RO is 48.

TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.

Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?

As always, thanks

If the tap water is 253 and the output after r/o is 48, then there is a problem with your r/o membrane/s.  On those figures your r/o is only working at 81% efficiency. Most r/o's work at between 96-99% efficiency unless you have a Merlin that runs at around 90%.

At 253ppm you should be down to around 5ppm after r/o.

Changing prefilters won't make any difference to your tds (ppm) output.




Spruce, thanks for your reply.

Tap water has been as high as the low 400's and the tank would be around 80 with zero still coming out at the pointy end.

Shouldn't the DI be able to cope with 48 down to zero?

Do you think I need a new RO?

8weekly

Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2013, 10:03:23 am »
I would have said too that the problem is the RO.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2013, 10:55:22 am »
Update

Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.

TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.

TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).

TDS in the tank after RO is 48.

TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.

Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?

As always, thanks

If the tap water is 253 and the output after r/o is 48, then there is a problem with your r/o membrane/s.  On those figures your r/o is only working at 81% efficiency. Most r/o's work at between 96-99% efficiency unless you have a Merlin that runs at around 90%.

At 253ppm you should be down to around 5ppm after r/o.

Changing prefilters won't make any difference to your tds (ppm) output.




Spruce, thanks for your reply.

Tap water has been as high as the low 400's and the tank would be around 80 with zero still coming out at the pointy end.

Shouldn't the DI be able to cope with 48 down to zero?

Do you think I need a new RO?

Yes it should. But that also depends on how fast you are processing the water through your di vessel. If you are pumping it from an IBC tank through your di onto the van, then the water flow will be too high for your di vessel to cope with. If you were pumping  that 48 tds water from your van tank through the di vessel then you shouldn't have a problem as the water is being processed much slower.

Also, having the di vessel on the van does tend to work better as the resin is being shaken around and this will not allow for water paths to form.

There is a cleaner in Middlesbrough that uses 2 di vessels and slowly fills 2 IBC tanks for his requirements with no r/o. He used to use 1 di vessel for a long time and this worked for him as it does other cleaners. His water is similar to ours at 125ppm. But he has to filter the tap water slowly.

We use Tulsion MB115 and it works fine for us. You may have a bad batch of resin (not impossible but unlikely; we always buy this from a known WFP supplier - Purefreedom, Daqua etc.)

Would you be able to identify what the last batch of resin was that you had before? The reason for asking is that Doug from Daqua did say many years ago that some resins work better than others because of the composition of your water. I never understood chemistry at school so Doug's explaination was too complicated for me to understand, but the bottom line was that in some areas Tulsion MB108 would work better than MB115.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

home6442

Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2013, 11:29:49 am »
I bought a 4040 ro in march tap water is 185ish. after ro it was on 5 then checked it the other day and its jumped to 13 flushed every week but only just changed my filters  :-[

Mine has went the same way from about 5 to 13.
I think its to do with the hot weather and holidays with a lot more demand the water pressure has fallen
slightly.
Flush for about 10 mins before each fill as your R.O. will be drying out during the day.
I would also run more to waste and see if this helps.

david wood

  • Posts: 509
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2013, 02:18:46 pm »
great thanks how do you set it for more waste water is it that red little wheel  thing I turn all the way to flush

Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2013, 02:47:19 pm »
Update

Added about 4 to 5 litre jugs of resin. Cylinder now 90% full.

TDS after 15 minutes of running through the DI is flickering between 2 and 1. After always having zero I find this a little unsettling, especially as this is new resin, and the pre-filter was only changed a couple of weeks ago.

TDS from tap is the lowest I've seen it at 253 (could this be down to the hot weather).

TDS in the tank after RO is 48.

TDS in several different clean cups between 1 and 2.

Is it possible that this will sort itself after a bit more water passes through it? If not what can I do?

As always, thanks

If the tap water is 253 and the output after r/o is 48, then there is a problem with your r/o membrane/s.  On those figures your r/o is only working at 81% efficiency. Most r/o's work at between 96-99% efficiency unless you have a Merlin that runs at around 90%.

At 253ppm you should be down to around 5ppm after r/o.

Changing prefilters won't make any difference to your tds (ppm) output.




Spruce, thanks for your reply.

Tap water has been as high as the low 400's and the tank would be around 80 with zero still coming out at the pointy end.

Shouldn't the DI be able to cope with 48 down to zero?

Do you think I need a new RO?

Yes it should. But that also depends on how fast you are processing the water through your di vessel. If you are pumping it from an IBC tank through your di onto the van, then the water flow will be too high for your di vessel to cope with. If you were pumping  that 48 tds water from your van tank through the di vessel then you shouldn't have a problem as the water is being processed much slower.

Also, having the di vessel on the van does tend to work better as the resin is being shaken around and this will not allow for water paths to form.

There is a cleaner in Middlesbrough that uses 2 di vessels and slowly fills 2 IBC tanks for his requirements with no r/o. He used to use 1 di vessel for a long time and this worked for him as it does other cleaners. His water is similar to ours at 125ppm. But he has to filter the tap water slowly.

We use Tulsion MB115 and it works fine for us. You may have a bad batch of resin (not impossible but unlikely; we always buy this from a known WFP supplier - Purefreedom, Daqua etc.)

Would you be able to identify what the last batch of resin was that you had before? The reason for asking is that Doug from Daqua did say many years ago that some resins work better than others because of the composition of your water. I never understood chemistry at school so Doug's explaination was too complicated for me to understand, but the bottom line was that in some areas Tulsion MB108 would work better than MB115.

Hi Spruce, thanks again, a great reply.

Water flow shouldn't be an issue as the complete system is in the van and has been since I bought it in March 2012. It is a Brodex 250RO and up until recently has been just about perfect.

Purchased this batch of Resin from the firm advertising on here (Corwood and Co.). I did wonder whether there could be a problem with it. If it persists I'll contact them.

No idea what resin was in previously, but it must have been good stuff as it lasted 17 momths (light use) that I've had it and I guess somethime before.

Could the heat be a factor, water is luke warm to the touch, I do wonder.


home6442

Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2013, 03:22:15 pm »
great thanks how do you set it for more waste water is it that red little wheel  thing I turn all the way to flush

Yes that's it.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2013, 07:24:40 pm »
I've just seen a poster on another forum complaning about a 5 litre plastic bag of Tulsion Resin not working that he has bought from Bayersan. So maybe there is a faulty batch out there.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2013, 11:33:34 pm »
I've just seen a poster on another forum complaning about a 5 litre plastic bag of Tulsion Resin not working that he has bought from Bayersan. So maybe there is a faulty batch out there.

Hi Spruce, photo attached showing batch. Not sure if you can check with other poster.

Anyone else having the same problem?

Cheers


Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2013, 10:32:23 am »
As it wasn't a 'bag' size, it was decanted into a plastic bag without any detail of what it was.

He ordered Tulsion and expected that is what was sent.

I also ordered small quantities of resin that came in small plastic bags in my early WFP days, but I never experienced problems with it.

Your bag is the same as mine apart from the batch code obviously - mine is 721120. I bought mine over a year ago.

Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2013, 06:38:28 pm »
Have emailed the seller to ask their advice, and also if they've had any other issues.

Will update if anything to add.

Thanks

windiewasher

  • Posts: 4393
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2013, 06:46:04 pm »
my tap water is around 400 mark,it comes out the ro at between 8 and 10.
Takings off all first cleans till march 7th 2014
October  total=  cleaned  extra per month
November = cleaned extra per month
Total £  so far.

Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2013, 07:59:58 pm »
my tap water is around 400 mark,it comes out the ro at between 8 and 10.


Yep, but 48 in the tank should still be zero, otherwise all DI only guys would be struggling.


windiewasher

  • Posts: 4393
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2013, 08:03:53 pm »
my tap water is around 400 mark,it comes out the ro at between 8 and 10.


Yep, but 48 in the tank should still be zero, otherwise all DI only guys would be struggling.


I agree but your membranes are on the way out m8!
why not get another di canister and then should knock it down lower so you double di it,it it comes at 8 from the first one it will be much lower from the second!
Takings off all first cleans till march 7th 2014
October  total=  cleaned  extra per month
November = cleaned extra per month
Total £  so far.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: after changing resin tds is not zero, help
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2013, 05:48:10 pm »
I've just seen a poster on another forum complaning about a 5 litre plastic bag of Tulsion Resin not working that he has bought from Bayersan. So maybe there is a faulty batch out there.

Doug Atkinson from Daqua replied to this posters issue and my comments regarding the problem Griffus has.

"I've never found resin not to perform, the biggest issues have been faulty risers and in this heat they are prone to it. Also if they have the di head that comes from China with 2 "o" rings there is always a risk of damaging them.

Lastly the amount of dodgy fake TDS meters that give incorrect readings are also a huge factor."



Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)