Thanks for posting those pictures would look forward to others posts on what methods they would use.
Trevor, would it be a good idea that those posting
A .......Happy to ID themselves, its easy to hide behind an alias
B .......Knowledge, experience and Qualifications
Whilst posting are you going to challenge the FWC for clear legal status on this issue
Regards
Andrew
Personally I would leave it up to persons choice whether they post that information but it would be good if people posted who do have experience of cleaning largish commercial buildings.
As for challenging the FWC for clear legal status on the issue i cant see a need unless accident statistics start to show there are injuries occurring from falling poles and then I would say there is a need for it to be looked at, but at present I feel there guidance notes are sufficient.
You are far more qualified than me and obviously know much more on how a judge would view the situation if an accident occurred but I seriously think a contractor would be hammered no matter what method they used should an accident occur, for instance scenario 1 a WFP falls and hits someone judge verdict you did not put sufficient measures in place to stop falling object. Scenario 2 an accident occurs using cherrypicker whether it be a minor one are a major one judge verdict why did you use access equipment when job could of been carried out safely from the ground, I know the above is a very simplified version and your risk assessment would be viewed more closely but I cant see how getting legal status on the cordoning of issue would clear up the dilemma
Once again thanks for posting the pictures,I know people have very strong views on this subject and it often turns into a bash Andrew thread me myself also being guilty of this so please can posters try to raise valid points without getting to personal.
Trevor, at last
Thats the point I am making,
Sometimes its not easy to put the right controls in place, and I feel from reading posts over the last year all of us would benefit from clear guidance.
The FWC would want us all to sit down only with the HSE and take guidance, during the workshops I showed the group an example of me completing the duty holder (building risk assessment on Rose Court in London, at the time this was the HSE head office, they had got just about everything wrong, yes thats it the HSE had not set up the property so window cleaners could clean safely.
The window cleaners knew how to clean the property and although my job also on the day was to attend a meeting and advise the window cleaners on the changes they should make, I agreed 100% with the method the window cleaners wanted to use. Result, a new travelling ladder system taken out of commission and the window cleaners allowed to use waterfed pole. Me supporting the withdrawing of using a powered sol sit chair at ten floors and wanting a rope access operation.
My view for what it is worth. It is time for our industry (FWC) to move forward, there is a great Facebook page for any FWC members on CIU to get involved with. Then to sit down with a large group, New starter, residential and domestic, small commercial, large and commercial, have the HSE working at height team, I could invite two senior directors from the two largest property management companies, these guys are about as qualified as you will get, a consultant specialising in all types of access, insurers, underwriters from Lloyds, a qualified legal QC who specialises in Health and Safety and a Judge.
The HSE have a large presentation room where other industries have done like wise when they have issues, I used to represent the FWC at a monthly HSE safety advisory group where one representative would attend from 100's of industry types. I would present the information and then allow all groups to have input, and end at a firm judgement.
For the many CIU posters.
There is a simple question you can always ask yourself, its the basis of any Safety Law
Are you protecting yourself and others, due to your action can you or others come to harm. If they can you need to control this and protect them. If you and others are safe then happy days, show me the money
