[windows_chepstow]

To me, complaining about this particular article, in this particular context, would be like a hotel owner complaining about Fawlty Towers.

Shiner,

That was a sharp analogy.  I remember being in the army and watching Ali G interviewing some crusty Major-General.

He asked the General a question which went along the lines of, 'Isn't the army for lads who is a bit thick?'.

I can't remember any of my fellow work-mates getting upset about it!

Maybe it was 'cos they were too thick?  Or maybe because they were confident enough in their skills and knowledge to know this was just a joke?

[windows_chepstow]

Falling from ladders accounted for 19% of fatal and 32% of major falling from height injuries in 2001/02. Statistics indicate that there are around 14 fatalities and 1,200major injuries reported to HSE each year due to falls from ladders. The construction industry has accounted for around 40% of falls from ladders in the past five years. A significant proportion of injuries also occur in the service and manufacturing industries with window cleaners accounting for around one third of falls from ladders in the service sector.6.Statistics indicate that there are an average of 4 fatalities amongst window cleaners due to falls from height each year (the majority of these will involve ladders).

Ah, David,

You made me Google for it.  Okay, I agree working at height is dangerous, but we do not work in the most dangerous profession in the UK.  In fact a study by the Oxford University don't even cite us in the top ten.

Short quote from the News article:

Fishermen and merchant seafarers have by far the most dangerous jobs in Britain, according to experts.

A study by researchers at Oxford University has found people working on the sea are up to 50 times more likely to die while working, compared those in other jobs.

Their jobs are much more hazardous than those in the construction or manufacturing industries and also a lot less safe than working for the police, army or fire brigade.

Full article here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2195847.stm

It stands to reason that if you have an accident out at sea; it's going to take a lot longer than a standard ten minutes response time for an ambulance to come and get you.

Why some window cleaners think we're in the most hazzardous occupation is because of this:

http://money.uk.msn.com/Insurance/Insight/Special_Features/Insurance_Cover/article.aspx?cp-documentid=145042

Personally, I'll believe an impartial study done by the Oxford University over a study done by an insurance company; and if you follow their links you'll find out where you can purchase their accident insurance too.

This deserves a thread of its own.  I apologise for hi-jacking it!

[Paul Coleman]

To me, complaining about this particular article, in this particular context, would be like a hotel owner complaining about Fawlty Towers.

Shiner,

That was a sharp analogy.  I remember being in the army and watching Ali G interviewing some crusty Major-General.

He asked the General a question which went along the lines of, 'Isn't the army for lads who is a bit thick?'.

I can't remember any of my fellow work-mates getting upset about it!

Maybe it was 'cos there were too thick?  Or maybe because they were confident enough in their skills and knowledge to know this was just a joke?

Too thick to get the joke you mean  ?   
Tosh.  My sense of humour is capable of getting me into trouble   Sometimes I can be laughing at myself and occasionally, someone else who may not be tuned in to my brand of humour, thinks I'm taking the p out of them.
Maybe I need to curb it a bit unless I know the company well.

[Moderator David@stives]

Tosh

By dangerous i meant if you go up a ladder 100 times a day then you are putting your life at risk 100 times a day by putting yourself in a dangerous situation.
But that was the times before wfp which i consider to be to a lot safer.

When considering what constitutes a dangerous occupation there is so many factors to take into account.

Do you say putting yourself in a dangerous situation is the top criteria or do you count the death rate or serious injury rate per 1000 of each occupation.

what is more dangerous being up a ladder or being on a boat in terms of falling ,drowning ,injury or death ,which factor determines the dangers.

With regards to insurance companies they are the ones who have to pay out after a claim and are in reciept of all claim injury stats.

I am not arguing with you just trying to find out what people percieve as being dangerous

Dave

[mark dew]

I wish they would put that article in my local newspaper.

I think perceptions like this only serve to help the legitimate W/C.

If anything it is a great marketing tool for us.

Use your full name, home and mobile number. People like to know who they are dealing with.

Customers would be more loyal if they were unsure of the background of any new W/C who is canvassing or undercutting your jobs.
He could be a burglar??

I would increase my prices if the public took articles like this seriously.

mark

[windows_chepstow]

With Reference to the above:

My thoughts are;

Window Cleaning is NOT the UK's most dangerous occupation; despite what Churchill Insurance says; and those that have a vested interest in selling you a Reach & Wash.  (See Note 1)

And if someone writes a humorous article about window cleaners; don't get too upset.  Every occupation gets the 'urine extracted' at some stage.  (See Note 2)

Note 1:

I'm not saying working from ladders isn't dangerous.  It is.  I've had one fall and cacked my trousers.

Note 2:

If you get upset about someone making fun of window cleaning/window cleaners, then you've obviously got a problem with it.

You should leave the job and engage in some occupation that gives you a higher status on the Registrar General Five-Point Scale of Occupation.

[Paul Coleman]

I wish they would put that article in my local newspaper.

I think perceptions like this only serve to help the legitimate W/C.

If anything it is a great marketing tool for us.

Use your full name, home and mobile number. People like to know who they are dealing with.

Customers would be more loyal if they were unsure of the background of any new W/C who is canvassing or undercutting your jobs.
He could be a burglar??

I would increase my prices if the public took articles like this seriously.

mark

The police aren't particularly helpful either regarding window cleaners and burglaries.  A few of my customers have been burgled down the years.  Apparently, one of the standard questions seems to be "Have you got a window cleaner?"  Fortunately, when this has happened, it has been at the house of a long standing customer.  It could feel awkward if it was a place where I had only been once or twice.

Psttt !!!    Anyone wanna buy a play station?

[Moderator David@stives]

Tosh

If you want to be tarred with that brush thats fine,because that is what the article is suggesting ie we are are all low life degenerate burglars.
Remember if you throw enough mud it sticks.

 dont expect me to subscribe to that train of thought, I did not find the article suggesting window cleaners were burglars etc ,funny at all,  i was not upset about it and even if i was why should i change my carreer.

Lets just hope beelzebubs window cleaner does not burgle him or fall off his ladder because he did not take any advice or a training course

[Ian_Giles]

I guess that window cleaners are putting themselves in constant risk of falling, simply by virtue of the fact they are climbing a ladder.
But I'd rather be a window cleaner than a soldier, unless I am really unlucky I am unlikely to be shot at or bombed or hacked to pieces.
And I'd rather be climbing a ladder than scrambling around the decks of a deep sea trawler in a force 8 gale in the middle of the north sea

From an insurance point of view window cleaning is rated high risk and always has been.
But only an idiot is going to think that it is safer to be a soldier, many, many millions have been killed as a result of being one, there is now a fairly steady stream of body bags coming back from Iraq.
So from that perspective, being a soldier is a damn sight more dangerous than being a window cleaner.
Presumably being a salesman is also a very dangerous job, if you are driving a thousand or more miles a week then you are doing something that is responsible for something like 3000 deaths a year and a great many more serious injuries, perhaps I should not just say 'salesman', but put it that anyone who drives for a living.
I know all of us have to drive to and from work, but we will cover roughly 10-12,000 miles a year, wheras someone who drives for a living will cover 50,000 miles or more, and that makes his profession far more dangerous, and THAT is reflected in what they have to pay for their vehicle insurance.

I would also have rated aerial fitters as having a more dangerous occupation than us window cleaners too. (not car aerial fitters though....thats a nice safe occupation )

It really does depend on what your perception is of danger doesn't it, I personally think someone shooting at me with a gun with the express intend of ending my life to be infinitely more dangerous than climbing a ladder

Ian

[Morph]

Accident figures for workers 2004/5

Falls from height:
53 fatal.  3783 major injury.  8906 injury longer than 3 days.

Struck by moving vehicle:
35 fatal.  715 major injury.  1796 injury longer than 3 days.

Note the differences.

Not just more chance of fall from height than being struck by moving vehicle.
Calculate, if you can, how many moving vehicles there are to pedestrians.
Calculate, if you can, how many people working at height are actually using ladders.

Contemplate how much higher the risk must be!

I don't think it's a joke any more.

Do you take extra care when crossing a busy main road?

Do you take even more care when using a ladder?
You certainly should.  You are considerably more at risk of high speed impact, as you hit the ground from 15ft...if you're lucky!!

I realy couldn't give a monkey's armpit about the newspaper article that started this thread.  All sensible people will find it, at best- uninteresting and not even amusing poorly written 'white space' filler in the local 'rag'.

But like we all do at times, because of some of the comments, I posted the most recent accurate figures, as in above quote.

No-one has remarked on them at all! Not one comment!!

 Which means one of two things
1)  I should have posted them on a separate, more relevant thread.

2) Not enough of us really believe them, or care as much as we say we do about the very real risks.

[Paul Coleman]

Accident figures for workers 2004/5

Falls from height:
53 fatal.  3783 major injury.  8906 injury longer than 3 days.

Struck by moving vehicle:
35 fatal.  715 major injury.  1796 injury longer than 3 days.

Note the differences.

Not just more chance of fall from height than being struck by moving vehicle.
Calculate, if you can, how many moving vehicles there are to pedestrians.
Calculate, if you can, how many people working at height are actually using ladders.

Contemplate how much higher the risk must be!

I don't think it's a joke any more.

Do you take extra care when crossing a busy main road?

Do you take even more care when using a ladder?
You certainly should.  You are considerably more at risk of high speed impact, as you hit the ground from 15ft...if you're lucky!!

I realy couldn't give a monkey's armpit about the newspaper article that started this thread.  All sensible people will find it, at best- uninteresting and not even amusing poorly written 'white space' filler in the local 'rag'.

But like we all do at times, because of some of the comments, I posted the most recent accurate figures, as in above quote.

No-one has remarked on them at all! Not one comment!!

 Which means one of two things
1)  I should have posted them on a separate, more relevant thread.

2) Not enough of us really believe them, or care as much as we say we do about the very real risks.

There are more than two possibilities.  I just thought.  "That's awful.  Better be careful out there.  Thanks for the reminder"
As you say, I think part of the problem was that the thread became two pronged - as often happens on here.

[Ian_Giles]

it has drifted somewhat, but its done so in a specific way, it hasn't meandered all over the shop, and at least the replies have been thought out ones!!

My point about driving cars was that there are 3000 or so deaths on the roads every year....
I'm sure there are statistics for injuries and deaths to do with the various driving jobs. long distance lorry drivers, coach drivers, salesmen, taxi drivers, white van men! And so on.

DIY is pretty dangerous too Loads end up in casualty because of it

So is chopping tomato's 
I bought one of those vegetable chopping thingy's a few years back, you kow the ones, you pop an apple or a spud in the holder and whizz it up and down along the plastic board with the blades in.
You can make chips, crisps and all manner of interesting chopped up things....including finger
This happens when you grap a bit of veg at random and for the sake of spped you don't bother to push it into the horlder, you hold it in your hand instead.....

I still have a lovely scar goijng almost all the way around my little finger...was quite hard positioning the fingertip back on, home surgery...I'm an expert now


Ian

[RO-Sheen]

I certainly took this article as a bit of fun but I can clarly understand how other window cleaners could take offense.
I was working as a Quality Systems Auditor in a Medical devices company for the last 14 years. I packed it in as I wanted to start up my own business in December 2005. After a lot of research I found that wfp window cleaning was the business I wanted to go into as it can be very profitable if done right, alot of freedom and  people in the business are very friendly, happy, great sense of humour and supportive of each other. Although I enjoyed my previous job, the majority of the people that I worked with before did not possess those qualities. Corporate employees tend to be over ambitious and likely to stab their colleagues in the back to further their own careers!
So far I have not witnessed any of that from window cleaners I have had the pleasure of meeting/working with (naming easyclean in Banbury, Woodley Washers in Reading and D+G in Oxfordshire who have helped and advised me)

I am only working as a wfp window cleaner for two weeks now but I am so happy with my decision with the career change. I am now very proud to say that I am a self employed windowcleaner.

[JM123]

I prefer to let people think wat they like - yes I will burgle your house, steal your car and I only make £40 a day.  Lets get real, anyone thinking that obviously knows little, if they think this much then you're never going to get any sense out of them.  People have made millions from all different types of occupation whilst others have lived on the breadline working in banks, but what do I know, I'm only an off-duty crook.

[dai]

Water off a ducks back. I know I am an honorable man, I have integrity, my self esteem feeds off it. So I'm a window cleaner, so what?
I can look any man living in the eye and say,"I'm as good a man as you".
And what's more, I believe it. Dai

[Morph]

Window cleaners have a certain bad reputation with some.

But I'm glad I'm not a car salesman!  (Tonbridge Wells, anyone?)

[gaza]

PHIL I CAN PRODUCE CLINICAL LAB WATER WITH MY ELGA SYSTEM THATS WHAT THERE DESIGNED FOR AND IF IT DIDNT I WOULD WANT MY MONEY BACK,PURER THAN 000TDS ITS MEASURED IN SIEMENS
SO IF HE HAD ONE OF THESE SYSTEMS HE WOULNT BE LYING

 GAZA

[Pole2pole]

In poor taste pj........NOT. Now there's an example of a fine upstanding(t*sser) i mean pillar of society who would look right down their nostrils at the likes of us. A couple of mill in the bank,a nice pad. Half a dozen vintage cars, but it still aint enough. Well,when we're out shining this summer catching our tans, bear a thought for that honourable gentleman. We know the score. It's all good, but we do have to stop telling everyone how wonderful a shiners life is cos before long.......every other b*gger will be doin it. So,here i stand before you all requesting that we take a leaf out of the black cab drivers book.......and tell everyone......."argh....you'll never make a living at it" Shine on  

[Morph]

Shine on 

.."You Crazy Diamond"!!

[mark dew]

Water off a ducks back. I know I am an honorable man, I have integrity, my self esteem feeds off it. So I'm a window cleaner, so what?
I can look any man living in the eye and say,"I'm as good a man as you".
And what's more, I believe it. Dai

spot on!!!