[Crystal-clear]

just got this cancelation in been a customer for 2 years so i thought its worth a reply


Dear Sirs,

Your company has been cleaning our windows for some time. Your 'pure water' process leaves the window panes impressively clean but the effect on the brittle putty of our elderly sash windows has been rather less good. Having just had the exterior of the house redecorated, we have decided to revert to conventional window cleaning.



any thoughts??

[LBWCS]

So if they'd of been done trad they wouldn't of needed redoing? I think we get blamed for too much

[Smudger]

Just an excuse for dumping the window cleaner IMO

All putty dries out over time  and with the hot weather then cold cracks and falls out
The pu wate has no differing effect to that of rain water if its loose it will fall out its just unfortunate that you have to clean them so touching the putty dislodges it this will happen for WFP or trad.

Perhaps now they have re decorated the house they spend some time on window maintainence

Darran

[p1w1]

id agree with the above the amount of pure water that is used is minuscule to the amount of rain we get plus as said the hot and cold weather expands and shrinks it...it doesn't last forever 

[AuRavelling79]

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your letter in which you erroneously state that the "pure water" process affects the putty in your windows.

When I cleaned your kind of window the traditional way the rubbing of the glass at the edge with the soapy applicator or where the squeegee blade touched it had a far more abrasive effect than a soft bristle brush with lightly sprayed water. Indeed where the decorator did an ill prepared job or the householder expected the job to last decades instead of years I used to get paint flakes and then if still improperly maintained, putty on my cloths and in my bucket.

You cannot have clean windows without a "rubbing action"; it is not possible.

I guess that you are informed by a decorator or painter that wishes to cover his rear by not taking responsibility for a well prepared and finished job by blaming "the window cleaner".

Another favourite canard is for the double glazing installer to blame the window cleaner when he has not bought well made and assembled units and he then wishes to blame "the window cleaner" when they breakdown to poor glues, shoddy construction and temperature extremes.

If I am wrong and you do your own painting then I hope my frankness does not detract from my honesty. However if you decide to discontinue my service then please be assured that I will rest easy knowing you have been informed as to the truth of the matter.

Yours robustly ( )




Shine and Rise window cleaning to the gentry.


And breathe...

You might be able to put it more nicely if you wish to retain the customer ... you might also refer to health and safety issues of traditional cleaning that may arise!

[SunShineCleaning]

If the windows are well maintained with good regular painting the putty should never be exposed. It isn't designed to be open to the elements.

[Dan crowther]

I agree that I think it's possible that pure water dries out putty and paint etc. My hands dry out and peel/ crack when it has too much contact with the pure water, they won't in rain though. Pure water that we use is different to rain, the extra purifying to 0tds seems to make a difference IMO. I think if the putty is deteriorating anyway then the agitation of the bristles along with the pure water can deteriorate it quicker than trad would, the bristles get into the small cracks and lift the putty. I have come to this conclusion because I have had customers say the same thing plus when I clean older wooden framed windows I can see it lifting old putty and i didnt have this problem so much when i was trad. I think it's fairly obvious that a squeegee isn't going to lift the putty the same as bristles...IMO. I personally no longer take on work with deteriorated wooden frames as I am conscious I may damage them. WFP is just not suitable for all windows...IMO.
Lee

[Small but perfectley formed]

No way pure water dries putty

[Ian101]

well my respone to this is





 NEXT PLEASE

[Mike #1]

My 30 year old wooden frames are not effected and the putty is just as good as the day I re-puttyed the windows.

Well maintained windows are not effected . Mike

[AuRavelling79]

I agree that I think it's possible that pure water dries out putty and paint etc. My hands dry out and peel/ crack when it has too much contact with the pure water, they won't in rain though. Pure water that we use is different to rain, the extra purifying to 0tds seems to make a difference IMO. I think if the putty is deteriorating anyway then the agitation of the bristles along with the pure water can deteriorate it quicker than trad would, the bristles get into the small cracks and lift the putty. I have come to this conclusion because I have had customers say the same thing plus when I clean older wooden framed windows I can see it lifting old putty and i didnt have this problem so much when i was trad. I think it's fairly obvious that a squeegee isn't going to lift the putty the same as bristles...IMO. I personally no longer take on work with deteriorated wooden frames as I am conscious I may damage them. WFP is just not suitable for all windows...IMO.
Lee

Erroneous statements.

[Dan crowther]

I agree that I think it's possible that pure water dries out putty and paint etc. My hands dry out and peel/ crack when it has too much contact with the pure water, they won't in rain though. Pure water that we use is different to rain, the extra purifying to 0tds seems to make a difference IMO. I think if the putty is deteriorating anyway then the agitation of the bristles along with the pure water can deteriorate it quicker than trad would, the bristles get into the small cracks and lift the putty. I have come to this conclusion because I have had customers say the same thing plus when I clean older wooden framed windows I can see it lifting old putty and i didnt have this problem so much when i was trad. I think it's fairly obvious that a squeegee isn't going to lift the putty the same as bristles...IMO. I personally no longer take on work with deteriorated wooden frames as I am conscious I may damage them. WFP is just not suitable for all windows...IMO.
Lee

Erroneous statements.

Nothing erroneous about the statements at all. They are formed from my own experience the same as yours are. Most of the statements are followed by IMO as I realise that others may have differing opinions due to there own experience. The OP can make his own judgements from the various opinions given. If frames are well maintained then WFP is fine. The householder said 'brittle putty of our elderly sash windows', I firmly believe that WFP is not suitable for a lot of older already deteriorating wooden frames...IMO.  Your statement that my opinions are erroneous is an erroneous one...IMO  

[telfordwindowclnr]

I don't know about this one.  The original statement says their putty was brittle and elderly anyway.

I have had it where lime putty is a problem. Lime putty apparently, never dries solid. The pure water was blamed for putty shrinkage, causing the paint to shrivel when a customer of mine had new windows.  I went back, cos this guys house was £395 every month, to inspect.  I found that the frames were not painted properly. I believe that when painting frames, one needs to overlap and paint the window slightly to create a seal.  Where the painter had not gone on to the glass was where the problems were.

I called a customer of mine who is a glazer, to ask his opinion. By complete fluke, cos we all live 15 miles from each other, he was the one who fitted the new windows!!! He said the problem was not the glass nor could he see how it was the water unless the frames were not painted properly.

I told my customer my opinion and that the glazer concurred.  Because he trusted his painter, who blamed the pure water, I lost a £395 a month customer through no fault of my own. 

[PoleKing]

What a house for £400 a month!

[Crystal-clear]

haha thanks for the input, i

i tested the water to see if she just wanted an excuse to cancel by saying "we also offer tradishonal methods" was expecting her to say no thanks already got someone els or something along those lines but she has indeed thanked me for my swift responce and asked for a tradisonal quote wasnt expecting that 

dear customer
along the lines of Trad = double the clean but before you consider/dismiss due to the big increase in price hit her with the expanding,putty being exposed to elements
or your post GOLD (maybe a bit nicer!)
been some good amount of posts i should be able to put something together water and rubbing etc. etc.. cant be avoided
basically need to explain to her that there is nothing wrong with "the pure water system  " being technical but without making her look silly )



(i certainly wont be risking my life anymore even if she aggrees to pay double for a maintence clean so must put her off ladder work at all costs! lol)

[Mike #1]

I don't know about this one.  The original statement says their putty was brittle and elderly anyway.

I have had it where lime putty is a problem. Lime putty apparently, never dries solid. The pure water was blamed for putty shrinkage, causing the paint to shrivel when a customer of mine had new windows.  I went back, cos this guys house was £395 every month, to inspect.  I found that the frames were not painted properly. I believe that when painting frames, one needs to overlap and paint the window slightly to create a seal.  Where the painter had not gone on to the glass was where the problems were.

I called a customer of mine who is a glazer, to ask his opinion. By complete fluke, cos we all live 15 miles from each other, he was the one who fitted the new windows!!! He said the problem was not the glass nor could he see how it was the water unless the frames were not painted properly.

I told my customer my opinion and that the glazer concurred.  Because he trusted his painter, who blamed the pure water, I lost a £395 a month customer through no fault of my own. 

You do need to overlap the paint onto the glass,  unfortunate you lost the custy steve , And your ex customer will learn to late when he has to pay again  to have them painted properly .

I do a few painted wooden frames which are never painted properly makes you wonder how painters get away with it , then the window cleaner with wfp gets the blame for the premature problems . Mike

[AuRavelling79]

I agree that I think it's possible that pure water dries out putty and paint etc. My hands dry out and peel/ crack when it has too much contact with the pure water, they won't in rain though. Pure water that we use is different to rain, the extra purifying to 0tds seems to make a difference IMO. I think if the putty is deteriorating anyway then the agitation of the bristles along with the pure water can deteriorate it quicker than trad would, the bristles get into the small cracks and lift the putty. I have come to this conclusion because I have had customers say the same thing plus when I clean older wooden framed windows I can see it lifting old putty and i didnt have this problem so much when i was trad. I think it's fairly obvious that a squeegee isn't going to lift the putty the same as bristles...IMO. I personally no longer take on work with deteriorated wooden frames as I am conscious I may damage them. WFP is just not suitable for all windows...IMO.
Lee

Erroneous statements.

Nothing erroneous about the statements at all. They are formed from my own experience the same as yours are. Most of the statements are followed by IMO as I realise that others may have differing opinions due to there own experience. The OP can make his own judgements from the various opinions given. If frames are well maintained then WFP is fine. The householder said 'brittle putty of our elderly sash windows', I firmly believe that WFP is not suitable for a lot of older already deteriorating wooden frames...IMO.  Your statement that my opinions are erroneous is an erroneous one...IMO  

I won't get into the rain water vs 000 TDS water except to say if you sit in the bath (whatever tds) for hours you get prune like dried out fingers. If your hands are exposed to wfp water in similar time and quantity amounts then there is something wrong with your pole connections. And unless you bathe in a water butt then how are you going to be soaked to the skin in rain water for long enough to make a judgement?

Agressive water due to zero TDS is like snake oil - anyone gonna sue Ionics for zero parts per billion when it cuts your skin like battery acid? I remember the "it'll rot your van and make holes in your clothes" nonsense. My first van is coming up seven years from new, has no protectacote or anything and is not suffering from rust despite several overflows and spillages. 

In the OP the householder said the outside of the house had just been decorated - if done properly then wfp won't be an issue. If not then the soap and water of trad getting into the putty will have the same but worse effect and if you damp cloth/dry cloth the panes then rubbing in the corners and edges will do the same.

I do a house that was built new in 2002 and has wooden georgian panes and which has not been painted to date. The frames are beginning to flake. (esp South facing where the sun mainly hits) I wfp everything except a panel of six by the front door under the porch which I use damp scrim/dry scrim for. It is protected from the elements yet is just as flaky as the rest. Perhaps I rub too hard?

The reason the frames are flaky is because they haven't been painted in 11 years, not wfp or trad methods.

[dazmond]

i lost a good job when i first switched over to wfp as he said it wont be good for his crumbling wooden georgian windows.this was a big house set in its own grounds.

some customers just cant be bothered(or afford) to keep their windows in good nick.


dazmond

[home6442]

When we filter water down to 000 tds then we make what is sometimes
called hungry water [ it wants to replace what has been removed]
This actually makes it better at cleaning because it will absorb more of the dirt.
That's also why it tends to be harder on your hands.
Look at it this way we store it in plastic tanks 24/7 we pump it through rubber and plastic pipes
and so on.
As it doesn't damage our tanks, pumps or pipes why would it damage window seals or
upvc frames.
Again I cant see it doing anymore damage to putty than tap water.

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

When we filter water down to 000 tds then we make what is sometimes
called hungry water

Is this just an opinion or can you offer information from an authoritative source?