[premier window cleaners]

We have been members for many years. Supposed to give you the edge in getting work, but no one seems to care if your a member or not.
I think they need to be more pro active in promoting themselves, such like having a plumber that is Gas safe approved.
On the website tenders are suppose to be on for members, but you can get more info about tenders on other sites.

Jonathan

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

You without the S(hit).

I love you van pic in your post btw

This is what its from, off the website

You selling a Gardiner pole??

No, Im not selling one Lee, but there is a Gardiners 25' extreme pole up for grabs in a charity raffle I'm running.

Here

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=172474.0

[JamesAJF]

it just another way of some other bloke to make money off u i cant see what advantages are im not paying my money every month for someone to have there sticker on my van and promote there business no thank you

[Pete Thompson]

We are having key people of our industry

Who are these so-called key people?

Vested interests and nobody's who think they're the 'voice of the industry'?

[vespawho]

Been in the building trade most of my life....seen many "trade" organisations formed in the past 28 years. In one way or another they take your money and thats all they are bothered about. Ex bosses, friends have joined and left because they are a waste of money.

Nearly ten years ago i started a company fitting solar panels (to heat hot water, not PV), when it was still costing 12-15K for a system. Well i sourced the parts and could match the same system for 4k and made a killing on that........My point is, a couple of years later companies like mine had sprung up, beating the big boys at there game. Guess what......suddenly a trade body springs up to regulate us.

So? you say......well guess what the heads of this trade body that is there to help its members and campaign to government for us etc......Funny how they were also on the boards of the big players in the market who by then were getting hit by us small guys.
So suddenly the government grant scheme which offered £400 saving to a customer would of cost me £2000 to join. With a massive part of that upfront with no guarantee that i would "pass" the test to get in. Many small guys didnt need to give the grant we were cheaper any way. Or i offered it off my own back.
But Customers believe that you are no good coz you are not in the club!! Big boys sales pitch told them so!!

Dont kid yourselves......People never set up these clubs unless there is a financial gain either directly or indirectly. Seen it far to many times, building trade is littered with them, all giving very little to its average member.

[Lee Burbidge]

You without the S(hit).

I love you van pic in your post btw

This is what its from, off the website

You selling a Gardiner pole??

No, Im not selling one Lee, but there is a Gardiners 25' extreme pole up for grabs in a charity raffle I'm running.

Here

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=172474.0

WOW brill Can I blog this on the Window Cleaning Magazine and network it for you??

[Lee Burbidge]

it just another way of some other bloke to make money off u i cant see what advantages are im not paying my money every month for someone to have there sticker on my van and promote there business no thank you

Its an annual fee. Would you pay a small annual fee for 30 times worth or more back for your money?

[Lee Burbidge]

We are having key people of our industry

Who are these so-called key people?

Vested interests and nobody's who think they're the 'voice of the industry'?

Key people are industry leaders so big company owners, manufacturers, etc etc and regular window cleaners like you and me

[Lee Burbidge]

Been in the building trade most of my life....seen many "trade" organisations formed in the past 28 years. In one way or another they take your money and thats all they are bothered about. Ex bosses, friends have joined and left because they are a waste of money.

Nearly ten years ago i started a company fitting solar panels (to heat hot water, not PV), when it was still costing 12-15K for a system. Well i sourced the parts and could match the same system for 4k and made a killing on that........My point is, a couple of years later companies like mine had sprung up, beating the big boys at there game. Guess what......suddenly a trade body springs up to regulate us.

So? you say......well guess what the heads of this trade body that is there to help its members and campaign to government for us etc......Funny how they were also on the boards of the big players in the market who by then were getting hit by us small guys.
So suddenly the government grant scheme which offered £400 saving to a customer would of cost me £2000 to join. With a massive part of that upfront with no guarantee that i would "pass" the test to get in. Many small guys didnt need to give the grant we were cheaper any way. Or i offered it off my own back.
But Customers believe that you are no good coz you are not in the club!! Big boys sales pitch told them so!!

Dont kid yourselves......People never set up these clubs unless there is a financial gain either directly or indirectly. Seen it far to many times, building trade is littered with them, all giving very little to its average member.

Do feel there are any aspects of the window cleaning industry that needs regulating? Is there any thing you feel is unfair in the industry and you wish you could change to make fairer for all? Im no 'big company' but I would get involved in a trade body that offered real value and benefits to its members

[vespawho]

Hi Lee
I get the feel that your intentions are all in the right places, so please dont think i am saying you want this for personel gain. I do understand that you feel if people have a gripe over something that it could make a difference. But experience tells me these "clubs" rarely work for the members....they say they do.!
Just mine/friends experience is they are not worth joining. I have read so many trade magazines over the years and what the average builder, roofer, plumber etc etc wants at grass roots does not change. Trade bodies, fedarations, gas safe etc they are all big money spinners.
Take Corgi now gas safe.....I have a friend who is qualified time served plumber. Has his gas safe cards to work on major industrial work...hospitals being one of his last big jobs. ......But for him to work on a house and instal a boiler he has to take another exam costing a few thousand pound. "not qualified to work on houses"

My boss joined fed of master buiders years ago....rep called at job, said looks like you know what your doing, hands over a cheque and stickers and was gone. Never got a job from them.

I dont wish to sound rude and i know some will slate me for this.....but window cleaning is not a "trade"....yes its a service and a good business. One that is devoid of regulation, because it really does not need any. I do strongley feel the more people push for fedarations etc the more paperwork we will all end up with. And will it benefit us....NO it will just mean a few quid a month less in your pocket.

Like the licence thing in scotland....does it stop the dole boys, partime fireman etc...No, never will. Same as the building game, those who are scared of the law will pay and those who are chancers will not. And do customers really care...No...because after all these years why do we still hear of and see cowboy builder programs. Because customers are driven by price most of the time. Not by a sticker or id card. Some of the best builders i know are not in any clubs.....some of the worst are!

I love the fact that i am now building a business in a job that has no paperwork. Not because im scared of it, but because it wastes time and money. I think the forums are great with loads of tips and help.
Let window cleaning stay as a job and keep it off the sights of the money grabbers.

All people need to do if they want big work is go for the health and saftey, cherry picker etc courses if needed. if not just stick to doing a good job, and earning money.

Thats my take on it all anyway lol

[wpclean]

Hi Lee
I get the feel that your intentions are all in the right places, so please dont think i am saying you want this for personel gain. I do understand that you feel if people have a gripe over something that it could make a difference. But experience tells me these "clubs" rarely work for the members....they say they do.!
Just mine/friends experience is they are not worth joining. I have read so many trade magazines over the years and what the average builder, roofer, plumber etc etc wants at grass roots does not change. Trade bodies, fedarations, gas safe etc they are all big money spinners.
Take Corgi now gas safe.....I have a friend who is qualified time served plumber. Has his gas safe cards to work on major industrial work...hospitals being one of his last big jobs. ......But for him to work on a house and instal a boiler he has to take another exam costing a few thousand pound. "not qualified to work on houses"

My boss joined fed of master buiders years ago....rep called at job, said looks like you know what your doing, hands over a cheque and stickers and was gone. Never got a job from them.

I dont wish to sound rude and i know some will slate me for this.....but window cleaning is not a "trade"....yes its a service and a good business. One that is devoid of regulation, because it really does not need any. I do strongley feel the more people push for fedarations etc the more paperwork we will all end up with. And will it benefit us....NO it will just mean a few quid a month less in your pocket.

Like the licence thing in scotland....does it stop the dole boys, partime fireman etc...No, never will. Same as the building game, those who are scared of the law will pay and those who are chancers will not. And do customers really care...No...because after all these years why do we still hear of and see cowboy builder programs. Because customers are driven by price most of the time. Not by a sticker or id card. Some of the best builders i know are not in any clubs.....some of the worst are!

I love the fact that i am now building a business in a job that has no paperwork. Not because im scared of it, but because it wastes time and money. I think the forums are great with loads of tips and help.
Let window cleaning stay as a job and keep it off the sights of the money grabbers.

All people need to do if they want big work is go for the health and saftey, cherry picker etc courses if needed. if not just stick to doing a good job, and earning money.

Thats my take on it all anyway lol

Top post mate, best I have seen in a long time.

[Pete Thompson]

Key people are industry leaders so big company owners, manufacturers, etc etc and regular window cleaners like you and me

Big company owners - Like OCS etc, I don't consider them to be 'key people'.  Sure they may be big companies, but they have ZERO impact on my business.  They could do anything, say anything, think anything - it simply won't affect me.

Manufacturers - as I said, vested interests.  They are interested in selling stuff, nothing more.  And time and time again it has been shown that they will put their own interests ahead of the window cleaner. I can clearly remember a time when squeegee manufacturers were busy pointing out that wfp did a bad job, even though that's a lie and it is obviously the best thing to happen to the industry for decades.  They will say anything if it furthers their own interests - they just don't have the window cleaner's interests at heart.  If they produce a useful product - great I will use it.  But they are not in a position to dictate policy.

Regular window cleaners like you and me - I am not a 'key person' in this industry, and (no offense) neither are you.

This is an industry that has no 'key people', that's just the nature of it.  I actually think this is a good thing, because it means anyone can start and run a successful window cleaning business without having to worry about what standards other people may or may not think should be applied.

It's window cleaning - it's a service.  The only 'Key People' are my customers.  I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks, no matter how important they may think they are.

[vespawho]

Thanks Samson

And Pete,.....You are right, the key players are the customers.
Like i said in my post, the "key players" who decided to set up the solar rade bodies and grant systems were all from big companies. Not once was a grass roots company asked. Because as you say they have a vested interest in how policy is made or changed.
For hundreds of years big companies have been the ones who dictate how policy, progress etc etc happens in any given trade or business. Not the small guy!

Whats changed.....They found a way of making us believe we have a voice if we join their club!!...Oh and pay to join as well lol

Maybe i'm being blind, but what would we need a "club" for?
Life is complicated enough, keep it simple, be as big or little as you like....but just worry about your customers and business and you cant go far wrong.

[p1w1]

Hi Lee
I get the feel that your intentions are all in the right places, so please dont think i am saying you want this for personel gain. I do understand that you feel if people have a gripe over something that it could make a difference. But experience tells me these "clubs" rarely work for the members....they say they do.!
Just mine/friends experience is they are not worth joining. I have read so many trade magazines over the years and what the average builder, roofer, plumber etc etc wants at grass roots does not change. Trade bodies, fedarations, gas safe etc they are all big money spinners.
Take Corgi now gas safe.....I have a friend who is qualified time served plumber. Has his gas safe cards to work on major industrial work...hospitals being one of his last big jobs. ......But for him to work on a house and instal a boiler he has to take another exam costing a few thousand pound. "not qualified to work on houses"

My boss joined fed of master buiders years ago....rep called at job, said looks like you know what your doing, hands over a cheque and stickers and was gone. Never got a job from them.

I dont wish to sound rude and i know some will slate me for this.....but window cleaning is not a "trade"....yes its a service and a good business. One that is devoid of regulation, because it really does not need any. I do strongley feel the more people push for fedarations etc the more paperwork we will all end up with. And will it benefit us....NO it will just mean a few quid a month less in your pocket.

Like the licence thing in scotland....does it stop the dole boys, partime fireman etc...No, never will. Same as the building game, those who are scared of the law will pay and those who are chancers will not. And do customers really care...No...because after all these years why do we still hear of and see cowboy builder programs. Because customers are driven by price most of the time. Not by a sticker or id card. Some of the best builders i know are not in any clubs.....some of the worst are!

I love the fact that i am now building a business in a job that has no paperwork. Not because im scared of it, but because it wastes time and money. I think the forums are great with loads of tips and help.
Let window cleaning stay as a job and keep it off the sights of the money grabbers.

All people need to do if they want big work is go for the health and saftey, cherry picker etc courses if needed. if not just stick to doing a good job, and earning money.

Thats my take on it all anyway lol

Great post that

[Michael Peterson]

if the only key people are your customers what about people like Alex Gardiner, Pheonix pure freedom etc that make your working life a lot easier since the old alu poles etc

[vespawho]

Suppliers, designers, system builders etc.... Yes important, some have designed new equipment some found and imported stuff. They do this as a business, it is in there interest to keep ahead of others to maximise profits.
All of these have helped take window cleaning from a city and bucket to today's equipment levels.

But don't be fooled to think if you have any form of regulation/club/federation it will be impartial.
Think about it, what companies do you choose to represent us as window cleaners?
Which window cleaner do you choose to be on the board?

Because who ever you choose they will not be impartial. They have a vested interest in the business in some way.
A pole maker wants to sell more poles.... So if there is a push by health and safety to ban ladder work..... Get my drift?
Human nature and conflict of interest is not a good mix of people to run a federation.
Please stop and think about it all a bit more. It's not needed

Alex gardiner, pure freedom etc etc will all still be there and all still pushing the industry forward. But the choice will still be the humble guy on the street how he runs his business.

I know I'm probably sounding bit over the top on this. But seen it, been in it and its so not worth it.

[vespawho]

should say cloth and bucket!.... bloomin phone

[Dave Willis]

I can't see what a Trade body can do for the average cleaner apart from hinder the ease of this job. They can't alter working conditions or set wages - it's not needed.

I think you need to look at the problems first then decide on if a Trade Body is required. Apart from the drought order I can't think of a single reason.

[telfordwindowclnr]

I'm an F.W.C member.  IMO, it used to be better.  The magazine WAS brilliant, now it's too full of adverts and not enough info for the reader.  I know advertising pays for mags like this, but it just seems more full than it used to be. It does throw up some gems of articles though and would be interested in writing one myself if you are interested Lee?

The plus points are that if you are a member, you can get heavily discounted corporate ads through the Hibu/Yell/The Artist Formerly Known As The Yellow Pages.  Yes, despite the internet being my main thrust for advertising, my cheap, but professional F.W.C. ad pays for itself every year.  Also, I get discounted public liability too.  What I save on those things, more than covers my subscription.

It was through the F.W.C. that I did my Working Safely IOSH course and am currently looking to do my Managing Safely IOSH and may well do it through the F.W.C. again.

I had a problem years ago with a customer threatening to stop a cheque payment because they were not happy with the standard of work.  I agreed to return to the customer that evening, but before I did, I called the F.W.C. legal dept.  They gave some brilliant advice on how to handle the situation with the customer and how I would stand legally if they stopped the cheque.  That cheque alone paid for a couple of years subscription.

The F.W.C. has been brilliant for me in years past.  Now though, I feel more like a loyal customer. I don't know who runs it fully, but it seems like it is run by old people.  There is nothing wrong with that inherently, but there is a new 21st century generation of entrepreneurs to aim for.  It somehow needs a new look and revamping for the visual and topical demands of the '@' and '#' young generation too. 

We are here as a market for you, pitch it to us properly and come and get us...

[AuRavelling79]

F.W.C. is completely irrelevant to me as a window cleaner.