[groundhog]

Hi guys, it looks like I am going to have to have a water meter fitted at my property very soon! Anyone else had one fitted? If so, what should I do, should I phone up the water company and tell them I'm a business user, or keep quiet about it? How much extra are my bills likely to be? Cheers

[concept]

Fit a submeter, measuring your supply to RO, and you wont get charged sewerage on that amount.

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

If you're a domestic customer and you don't pay your bill it's very difficult for them to cut you off. If you're commercial business and you don't pay your bill they'll cut you off.

[CF Facilities]

I think I shot myself in the foot with Anglian water. I asked for a rebate for my sewerage charge and they asked why so I explained I was a self employed window cleaner and they said ok that should be fine but we will have to put you on a commercial tariff!

I have yet to see what effect that has on my bill and also whether as commercial I will have to pay VAT!!!!

Nothing ever simple in life!

[groundhog]

Thanks guys, so I guess that I am better off saying nothing to the Water company, I'm dreading the bills, as I use a lot of water!! I am thinking about getting an RO fitted in my van as well as my static system, so that I can top up my tank during the day using customers water, if they don't object of course!! Anyone else do this?

[rg1]

You can still get a sub meter fitted and claim against your tax for the water used.

If you are on a meter then surely most of your customers will be as well?

[R.C Property]

I think I shot myself in the foot with Anglian water. I asked for a rebate for my sewerage charge and they asked why so I explained I was a self employed window cleaner and they said ok that should be fine but we will have to put you on a commercial tariff!

I have yet to see what effect that has on my bill and also whether as commercial I will have to pay VAT!!!!

Nothing ever simple in life!

opps! thats why i never ask for a rebate on the waste just for that reason! paying for the waste is cheaper than going on the business tariff!

[groundhog]

So, can anyone give me an idea of how much my water bill is likely to increase by? cheers

[davids3511]

I think I shot myself in the foot with Anglian water. I asked for a rebate for my sewerage charge and they asked why so I explained I was a self employed window cleaner and they said ok that should be fine but we will have to put you on a commercial tariff!

I have yet to see what effect that has on my bill and also whether as commercial I will have to pay VAT!!!!

Nothing ever simple in life!

I think the commercial tarrif is usually the same just you will have to pay vat on the whole bill, not just the commercial part of it.
opps! thats why i never ask for a rebate on the waste just for that reason! paying for the waste is cheaper than going on the business tariff!

[Pete Thompson]

I'd keep silent.

I think you're supposed to get a permit if you have an RO system connected to the water supply, so just don't say anything.

[R.C Property]

I think I shot myself in the foot with Anglian water. I asked for a rebate for my sewerage charge and they asked why so I explained I was a self employed window cleaner and they said ok that should be fine but we will have to put you on a commercial tariff!

I have yet to see what effect that has on my bill and also whether as commercial I will have to pay VAT!!!!

Nothing ever simple in life!

I think the commercial tarrif is usually the same just you will have to pay vat on the whole bill, not just the commercial part of it.
opps! thats why i never ask for a rebate on the waste just for that reason! paying for the waste is cheaper than going on the business tariff!

with anglian water it depends on how much you use,

the household charges are :-

water £30 a year + waste £86 then water £1.51 per 1000lts watse £1.64 per 90% of water

business (if you use less than 500 cubic metres a year)

water £57 a year + waste £143 then water £1.35 per 1000lts watse £1.55 per 90% of water

[R.C Property]

I'd keep silent.

I think you're supposed to get a permit if you have an RO system connected to the water supply, so just don't say anything.

no you dont need a permit for an RO system well not in the uk anyway.

[Pete Thompson]

no you dont need a permit for an RO system well not in the uk anyway.

You sure about that fella?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1148/regulation/5/made

5.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), any person who proposes to instal a water fitting in connection with any of the operations listed in the Table below–

(a)shall give notice to the water undertaker that he proposes to begin work;
(b)shall not begin that work without the consent of that undertaker which shall not be withheld unreasonably; and
(c)shall comply with any conditions to which the undertaker’s consent is subject.

TABLE

1.  The erection of a building or other structure, not being a pond or swimming pool.
2.  The extension or alteration of a water system on any premises other than a house.
3.  A material change of use of any premises.
4.  The installation of–
(a)a bath having a capacity, as measured to the centre line of overflow, of more than 230 litres;
(b)a bidet with an ascending spray or flexible hose;
(c)a single shower unit (which may consist of one or more shower heads within a single unit), not being a drench shower installed for reasons of safety or health, connected directly or indirectly to a supply pipe which is of a type specified by the regulator;
(d)a pump or booster drawing more than 12 litres per minute, connected directly or indirectly to a supply pipe;
(e)a unit which incorporates reverse osmosis;
(f)a water treatment unit which produces a waste water discharge or which requires the use of water for regeneration or cleaning;
(g)a reduced pressure zone valve assembly or other mechanical device for protection against a fluid which is in fluid category 4 or 5;
(h)a garden watering system unless designed to be operated by hand; or
(i)any water system laid outside a building and either less than 750mm or more than 1350mm below ground level.
5.  The construction of a pond or swimming pool with a capacity greater than 10,000 litres which is designed to be replenished by automatic means and is to be filled with water supplied by a water undertaker.

This is why I would keep quiet about it.

[R.C Property]

no you dont need a permit for an RO system well not in the uk anyway.

You sure about that fella?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1148/regulation/5/made

5.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), any person who proposes to instal a water fitting in connection with any of the operations listed in the Table below–

(a)shall give notice to the water undertaker that he proposes to begin work;
(b)shall not begin that work without the consent of that undertaker which shall not be withheld unreasonably; and
(c)shall comply with any conditions to which the undertaker’s consent is subject.

TABLE1.  The erection of a building or other structure, not being a pond or swimming pool.
2.  The extension or alteration of a water system on any premises other than a house.
3.  A material change of use of any premises.
4.  The installation of–
(a)a bath having a capacity, as measured to the centre line of overflow, of more than 230 litres;
(b)a bidet with an ascending spray or flexible hose;
(c)a single shower unit (which may consist of one or more shower heads within a single unit), not being a drench shower installed for reasons of safety or health, connected directly or indirectly to a supply pipe which is of a type specified by the regulator;
(d)a pump or booster drawing more than 12 litres per minute, connected directly or indirectly to a supply pipe;
(e)a unit which incorporates reverse osmosis;
(f)a water treatment unit which produces a waste water discharge or which requires the use of water for regeneration or cleaning;
(g)a reduced pressure zone valve assembly or other mechanical device for protection against a fluid which is in fluid category 4 or 5;
(h)a garden watering system unless designed to be operated by hand; or
(i)any water system laid outside a building and either less than 750mm or more than 1350mm below ground level.
5.  The construction of a pond or swimming pool with a capacity greater than 10,000 litres which is designed to be replenished by automatic means and is to be filled with water supplied by a water undertaker.

This is why I would keep quiet about it.

im sure about it.
if you need a permit for them the people selling them would have to tell you by law!

having our otherside of our business in the building trade we have done several of those things in that list and it all compleys and passed inspections with no problem,.

if you want to quote things how about this one then about being on a water metre??

(2) These Regulations do not apply to a water fitting installed or used, or to be installed or used, in connection with water supplied for purposes other than domestic or food production purposes, provided that–
 (a)the water is metered; .
(b)the supply of the water is for a period not exceeding one month, or, with the written consent of the water undertaker, three months; and .
(c)no water can return through the meter to any pipe vested in a water undertaker.

[Pete Thompson]

if you want to quote things how about this one then about being on a water metre??

(2) These Regulations do not apply to a water fitting installed or used, or to be installed or used, in connection with water supplied for purposes other than domestic or food production purposes, provided that–
 (a)the water is metered; .
(b)the supply of the water is for a period not exceeding one month, or, with the written consent of the water undertaker, three months; and .
(c)no water can return through the meter to any pipe vested in a water undertaker.

You're quite right those regulations don't apply if you're using the water for non-domestic purposes AND on a water meter, AND for less than 1 month AND there's no backflow.

I don't know many window cleaners who will be using water for less than 1 month.
So in that case, the regulations DO apply.

[R.C Property]

if you want to quote things how about this one then about being on a water metre??

(2) These Regulations do not apply to a water fitting installed or used, or to be installed or used, in connection with water supplied for purposes other than domestic or food production purposes, provided that–
 (a)the water is metered; .
(b)the supply of the water is for a period not exceeding one month, or, with the written consent of the water undertaker, three months; and .
(c)no water can return through the meter to any pipe vested in a water undertaker.

You're quite right those regulations don't apply if you're using the water for non-domestic purposes AND on a water meter, AND for less than 1 month AND there's no backflow.

I don't know many window cleaners who will be using water for less than 1 month.
So in that case, the regulations DO apply.

like i said before if you have to have a permit by law for a ro systerm the by law the people selling them has to tell you that you need one otherwise they are breaking the law too.

just like having a tv, you dont need anything to own a tv, but if you use it then everyone knows that you have to have the licence

plus you missed out about the other side of our business and done things on that list that has passed all regs with no problem!!!

[Pete Thompson]

well fella you seem to know more about it than me, so I'll defer to your knowledge.

I still wouldn't tell the water board though!

[R.C Property]

well fella you seem to know more about it than me, so I'll defer to your knowledge.

I still wouldn't tell the water board though!

just spoke to anglian water about it and they said as long as there is a check valve fitted, as they said, to protect there system, in other words water from the ro cant drain back into the mains water supply you dont need anything,

or

you have the water fed from a tank, so mains water fills tank then tthe ro takes the water from the tank.

they think its the bigger machines that turn over 1000's lts of water that needs more checking, not to worried about the window cleaning ones,

but like you say dont tell them! lol

[Matt.]

Hello mate, I am on a water meter at home and won't dare fill my tank up at home. All my customers are commercial so I use a merlin in me van and just connect up to any outdoor tap, I also have a tank in my garden which I keep filled with wots left from day to day, incase I need to be full for early start.
 try to make sure your waste goes down a grid or there is water everywhere.

This will work for you and cost you nothing.

Domestic customers won't be happy but if they don't know ........ They can't complain.

Best of luck

[R.C Property]

Hello mate, I am on a water meter at home and won't dare fill my tank up at home. All my customers are commercial so I use a merlin in me van and just connect up to any outdoor tap, I also have a tank in my garden which I keep filled with wots left from day to day, incase I need to be full for early start.
 try to make sure your waste goes down a grid or there is water everywhere.

This will work for you and cost you nothing.

Domestic customers won't be happy but if they don't know ........ They can't complain.

Best of luck

why not? it dont cost that much, we use 400lts daily, plus fill another window cleaners 500lt tank up now and again and not really noticed a rise in the water bill. 
and im using an RO that has a ratio of 1:2