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CARPET KNIGHTS

  • Posts: 883
The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« on: May 23, 2013, 06:28:30 pm »
A couple of weeks ago I came across the woolsafe academy website and on reading it it appeared that all you had to do was complete the online course to become a woolsafe approved service provider. So I payed my £160 odd and completed the course. It is not until the end of the course that tells you that you need to pay more money to be allowed to be an approved service provider.

I have since found a link on the page that takes you to further criteria but it is hidden amongst of text that is the same colour so there is no way of knowing that it is a link unless you hover over it.

The webpage is:

http://www.woolsafeacademy.org/woolsafe-academy-training/fibre-care-specialist-online-course/

and the text containing the link is as follows

*subject to passing the qualifying criteria.

which I assumed meant passing the test to a certain standard.


The course itself was pretty basic to say the least and if you get any questions wrong you can just redo it until you get a 100% grade

I have complained to woolsafe who don't seem to care.

Beware everybody else.

Cheers Goron

Teddycare

  • Posts: 103
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 06:51:19 pm »
I have been carpet cleaning for 32 years, have never used woolsafe as a form of certification and probably never will, so yah boo to them to (basically they are just another organisation taking money from you the hard pressed professional) end of story  ;D

The WoolSafe Organisation

  • Posts: 22
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2013, 09:58:38 am »
Hello Goron,

I read your email to our administrator, Stella yesterday afternoon and replied to you at the earliest opportunity and prior to you posting on here so I think it is unfair to say that WoolSafe does not care. As yet I have not received any reply from you.

The wording 'This is the course you must successfully complete if you wish to become a *WoolSafe Approved Service Provider' was added when we introduced additional courses. It was done with the intention of making it clear that the Fibre Care Specialist course was the prerequisite to application for Service Provider status.

To date you are the only person to have pointed out that the wording could mislead someone. Now that I am aware of this possibility I shall edit the text today. To say that this is intentional 'Bait and switch' is grossly unfair. You are also the only person ever to complain that a WoolSafe course was 'too easy'.

As I said in my email to you yesterday:

I’m sorry that you are disappointed your successful completion of the WoolSafe Fibre Care Specialist online course doesn’t entitle you to automatic WoolSafe Service Provider status. It certainly is not the intention of the WoolSafe Organisation to mislead anyone. I will review the wording on the web page carefully to see how we can make things clearer if possible.

WoolSafe has the same kind of system as other, similar organisations and associations. Like the NCCA and IICRC you must first take some training and then apply for membership. Once your company has been vetted and approved you are invited to join. Once a registration and/or annual membership fee is paid you are then permitted to use the relevant marks/logos for your marketing purposes. The qualifying criteria are quite lengthy and therefore not something we would want to post in their entirety on the website, hence the link to a printable document.

There is nothing unusual or underhand in this. It is the norm.

The Fibre Care Specialist training stands alone as an interesting and useful course and many trainees have completed it without ultimately joining the WoolSafe Approved Service Provider network. I notice that you did download the certificate on completion of the course and you are entitled to show that to your customers as proof that you have undertaken the Fibre Care Specialist training.

However, no company is permitted to use the WoolSafe Approved Service Provider mark until their company has been vetted (we check insurance, years of experience in cleaning, professional training undertaken and proof of use of WoolSafe Approved products) and the membership fee is paid.

As a professional organisation we would prefer to deal with complaints privately. It is disappointing that you have chosen this method.

Regards,

Steve

creighton foyle

  • Posts: 761
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2013, 11:06:35 am »
having admitted the possibility that the wording could be misleading (you just said you would edit it today) why don't you give the man a refund ?, he obviously would not have done the course had all the criteria been made crystal clear. classic case of possible miss-selling.

CARPET KNIGHTS

  • Posts: 883
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2013, 12:26:57 pm »
Hello Steve,


Thank you for your reply.


As you are now aware of the misleading nature of the page, I do believe it would be fair for you to refund all the money I have already paid you not just for the stickers that you had already offered to refund that you missed off the email you posted above!


Many thanks


Goron Knight

The WoolSafe Organisation

  • Posts: 22
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2013, 02:07:24 pm »
Hello Goron,

I have discussed this issue with my colleagues and although you are the only trainee to have misinterpreted the heading it has been decided that as a gesture of good will the course fee will be reimbursed in full. Please allow a few days for the funds to appear in your account.

As you see no value in the Fibre Care Specialist Course or WoolSafe accreditation I trust that you will not be displaying the certificate or showing it to your customers.

Regards,

Steve

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 02:28:48 pm »
I think that is a very nice gesture from Woolsafe, although it seems that they have been bullied into it by it being published both on here and on the other channel.

So well done Steve at Woolsafe.
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

mark shannon

  • Posts: 961
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 03:22:31 pm »
I think that is a very nice gesture from Woolsafe, although it seems that they have been bullied into it by it being published both on here and on the other channel.

So well done Steve at Woolsafe.

Forums powerful and potentially damaging. Maybe posting a complaint like this the last resort after all other avenues have been exhausted.
Mark

CARPET KNIGHTS

  • Posts: 883
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 04:30:05 pm »
Thank you very much Steve.

The main outcome here is that a misleading webpage will now be changed and will hopefully prevent people from loosing their money in the future.

Goron Knight

The WoolSafe Organisation

  • Posts: 22
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 05:04:05 pm »
That's great, Goron. I'm glad everyone is happy.

Thank you for posting the link to the WoolSafe Academy, we've had a big spike in people registering, a couple of enquiries about training courses and even an old member looking at re-joining.

I guess every cloud has a silver lining.

Enjoy the bank holiday everyone, I hear rumours of the sun coming out!

Steve

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2013, 05:44:27 pm »
That's great, Goron. I'm glad everyone is happy.

Thank you for posting the link to the WoolSafe Academy, we've had a big spike in people registering, a couple of enquiries about training courses and even an old member looking at re-joining.

I guess every cloud has a silver lining.

Enjoy the bank holiday everyone, I hear rumours of the sun coming out!

Steve

Most misleading thing Woolsafe have ever posted...
Carpet Cleaning http://www.floors2show.co.uk
Google Adwords Management http://www.pagecrest.co.uk

cannon

  • Posts: 492
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 06:44:07 pm »
Hi Steve

On completion of the course can the "fibre care specialist" logo be used in marketing.

The WoolSafe Organisation

  • Posts: 22
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2013, 10:24:47 am »
Hello Karl,

The 'WoolSafe Approved' logos are for use by WoolSafe members and product licensees only. The Approved Fibre Care Specialist logo is for the owners or technicians of Approved Service Provider companies who have undergone training. Therefore, when carpet owners and retailers see the WoolSafe Approved Fibre Care Specialist and Approved Service Provider logos they know that not only have they been trained by us but that they have insurance, are experienced (5 years in business) and agree to use WoolSafe Approved products when cleaning wool carpets and rugs.

However, trainees who complete the online course receive a certificate of achievement that they can show their clients.

I think that this set up is similar to most other organisations or associations similar to ours. For example: If someone does an NCCA or IICRC training course, that doesn't entitle them to use the NCCA or IICRC marks. For that you must become a member and satisfy their entrance requirements.

I hope that is clear. Feel free to contact me for more information: steve@woolsafe.org as I rarely check the forum unless a friend tells me I should 'take a look'...

Steve

joe brown

  • Posts: 30
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2013, 07:42:24 pm »
Crikey, people will literally join anything wont they?

It reminds me of the dulux recommended painter and decorators you see about .Surely the public dont still buy into this sort of thing do they?


Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407

Teddycare

  • Posts: 103
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 03:30:36 pm »
Oh dear I have just looked on their website and it reminds we of the 1001 AD back in the 1960s/70s that said you can clean a big big carpet for less than half a crown, think my prices might be a bit high  :'(

Buckland

  • Posts: 414
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2013, 07:16:49 pm »
Not sure about the bait and switch issue - but at least goron got a serious response and a result. Anyway I may be opening a can of worms here but much more interesting I think is the issue of the Woolsafe  'approved' spotters, shampoos, cleaners etc like the list found in the booklet in the last link on this post - dont know if this is an upto date list but it seems to include some of the usual suspects for mis-use and of course we come across non-approved products (like Vanish apparently - which I thought at one time did have the woolsafe logo must have imagined that) and many of these that we come across on a daily basis - I am sure everyone has a story to tell about how they have seen diy products mis-applied or mis-used or however you want to describe the problem - sometimes the only reason people call you in is because they have a residual/re-soiling problem - so to some extent I suppose maybe we should be grateful that these products exist - I dont doubt that the Woolsafe procedure as outlined on their website is rigorous and it appears to cover all eventualities - it also has a telling line about "The re-soiling characteristics: cleaned carpets should not re-soil more quickly than the carpet did before cleaning." - this is under the section on Testing and Product Acceptability.

I would be interested if other people's experiences are the same as mine. More often than not (approved or not) the results are equally poor because the products are bought with the weekly shop and then just sprayed on the 'spot' 'stain' or 'dirty mark' and rubbed around a bit with no real thought as to what is going to happen next - now what happens next is not a lot as very seldom if at all does the customer think of how they are going to get the soils or staining material etc out of the carpet along with the product (usually far too much of the product has been used) so we have maybe the released contaminant, excess product and the possibility of some damaged fibres where the carpet has been abraded or rubbed or whatever you want to call it - and although I am not saying the Woolsafe products would do this everyone will have seen the intense white spots that even when you have rinsed thoroughly look suspiciously like a bleach mark (caused by some form of sod percarbonate?) - plus also even if you 'only' have the over-applied 'shampoo' you may have a really fun time rinsing a serious quantity of foam out of the carpet and often having to add defoamer to your vacuum system - not the end of the world but to do a proper job and rinse this stuff out you are adding time to the job - and sometimes you can be pulling your hair out as you come across patch after patch of the dreaded white foamy junk...

and no doubt many of us have seen the worse case scenario where the stain/mark has not been removed, the carpet is damaged by rubbing and there is a bleach mark around the still visible stain - the unholy triumvirate of bad news - happy days

What interests me is whether Woolsafe decide to approve the products that they have approved or whether the egg comes before the chicken - do the manufacturers approach them for approval or t'other way round - also what does it cost (yeah like they are going to tell us that) to get that little woolsafe trademark on the label - I am sure consumers do recognise that logo and the dot org website is a subtle way of saying 'hey we are the good guys' above all the commercial hoi poloi.

have to say we are all I think susceptible to being lets say re-assured by the woolsafe mark - the two products I use most of at present are PureClean and Fibre and Fabric Rinse (latter leaves a nice 'hand' on wool carpets) and both have the woolsafe mark...

This is the booklet - interesting and useful(!) for consumers:
http://free.yudu.com/item/details/446720/The-Safe-Way-To-Care-For-Your-Wool-Carpets-And-Rugs?refid=62632
Buckland Carpet & Fabric Care :: 01590 688938
www.SteamCleanCarpetService.co.uk

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2013, 07:31:08 pm »
Hi Steve

Two of my competitors are using your logo on their sites but don't appear to be wool safe members.

I'll be sure to forward their details.

Thanks
Tony

joe brown

  • Posts: 30
Re: The bait and switch that is Woolsafe academy
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2013, 07:41:58 pm »
Hardly crimewatch stuff is it? ,no one knows what it is!!