[AJCleaningServices]

Self employed or not...............the pricing has to be the same…

... ALWAYS cost a job as if you were going to staff it. NEVER 'buy' turnover by slashing your margins.

Some time, I would say (from my own experience) most of the time, customer would not like to pay much money to “a one man band”.  Every body understands that big companies have big overheads and small firms can keep overheads down.

My point is that if you are a “one man band” you will be unlikely to get similar hourly rate as average cleaning companies.  I speak from my own experience.  We started our own business on our own and raised charges as soon as we took staff on.  Increase was approved by our customers without any problems, except couple of cases…

[CMS]

except couple of cases…

What happened to those jobs???

Each to their own I suppose Arthur..................

But I would like you to imagine this for a moment.............

If you were to cost them properly you would allow £5.70 per hour for wages. If you do them yourself you can cut your costs because you are a one man band. Am I right so far?

Are you really putting a value on your time as less than £5.70 per hour. Is that what you think you are worth?

I always properly cost in the cleaners wage because my time is much better spent out there selling and getting in new contracts. The more time you spend cleaning the less time you've got for selling and your selling time is worth far more than £5.70 per hour.

Although I've spent a lot of time cleaning in the early days I've always been a firm believer that if you have to spend all this time cleaning you can't possibly be managing and growing your business properly, can you?

Please explain this to me...............

Why do you clean yourself? Is it because you have to cost them too low to put a cleaner in?

Why do you have to cost them too low? Is it because the Client sees you cleaning yourself and expects a low charge?

It's a vicious circle that you have to break.

Do you want to grow a business or be a cleaner? 

[D woods]

Hi CMS
You are 100% right (as usual ) . You should set up a cleaning consultancy
and charge for advice of this quality.

[shelton]

<RANT MODE ON>

 

I have a problem with the assumption that everyone wants to grow their companies.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again now . .. I'm in this business as it allows me to manage my own time and to bring a bit more cash in for the luxuries in life.

I have no interest (at the moment) in expanding. I take on enough work to keep myself busy, but still allow time for a social and family life.

My current perspective is that taking on staff is more hassle than it's worth and I do not have the inclination, funds in the bank or know-how to do this, not to mention all the associated headaches that go with it - I can't afford holiday, sick, maternity pay, etc . .. 

Turn it around . . . What if I take someone on, increase the number of contracts I have and then my employee walks.  I'm left in exactly the position I wanted to avoid - ie. more work than I can handle by myself.

I can currently control what I do and when I do it.  One too many contracts/customers means I am not in control of that.

That's a vicious circle in itself.

I'm just getting increasingly frustrated by the assumption that everyone wants to expand and not be hands-on.  Personally, I'm not in that boat and don't expect to be told that I'm not ambitious enough.

<RANT MODE OFF>

[CMS]

Hi there

Firstly, I can't remember saying to anyone that they are not ambitious enough. My actual words were "Each to their own, Arthur".

'A and J' was actually talking about being able to grow a business, indeed he has talked about it many times on many threads.

The fact that you don't and are happy to plod along is OK and yes, you have made this known before.

To try and keep this thread on topic...............

You say in your post that you don't have the funds, the inclination etc. to pay holiday pay etc.

Isn't that what this thread was about? Whether or not we should cost this in or devalue the contract to clean it ourselves?

As long as you are happy to clean contracts yourself without costing these things in, you will never have the funds or the inclination to do so.

[shelton]

Apologies, I hadn't actually realised I was addressing my post directly to you.  However, I am now directing this post at you, CMS.

I am unsure whether you just don't realise what you are doing or whether it's the 'coldness' of the forum format?

You say "As long as you are happy to clean contracts yourself without costing these things in, you will never have the funds or the inclination to <expand your company>."

How can I put this ....  I DON'T WANT TO.

Yet again there is the assumption.  I just want to charge my £15p/h, draw a salary, manage my own time and have a nice life.

You've already stated many times that you are not doing what you are doing to primarily draw a salary, but to build a business.  You cost with one aim, I cost with another.  I respect your approach, I just ask you to respect mine (and others) without belittling it.

You are always a great source of information and always available to help others, but please don't spoil that.

Getting the thread back on track for Pj (who has probably long gone) my only advice is to keep your quote in-line with your current window cleaning charges and ensure you (and only you) are happy with it.

[CMS]

You cost with one aim, I cost with another.  I respect your approach, I just ask you to respect mine

I do respect your way of doing things. That's why I said, each to their own.

Personally, I couldn't give a t**s how you want to live your life or how you want to run your business. It is no concern of mine so please don't pretend that it should be..................

Remember......................we were asked the question "What should I charge?".

I gave an answer that the majority of people on here would agree with.

OK, you're the minority. You understand that. I understand that.

I think the guy wanted to know what was the norm, didn't he?

[shelton]

Whoa!  ...  easy tiger!

Touched a nerve there, obviously.

I reckon you should downsize to release some of that tension 

And I'd say my size business was more the norm .. ..

 

[Morph]

Phew!

That's a bit more like it!  Amazing what a little "fuel to the flames" can produce.
Thanks guys and gals for your help, (currently more than I expected) I've got a good idea where to go with this job now.

I didn't want to create an argument over it.  All input is good, thanks once again.
Pj

By the way, can't really tell a lot about the real person behind our Avatars, but sometimes they influence the way posts are viewed:  You've been helpful CMS, it's none of my business, but, I kept thinking, any minute you're gonna say, "YOU'RE FIRED!"  (Alan Sugar?)

Seriously, though, thanks for the advice. 

[CMS]

If there is one thing that I do not have  it is tension...................so no you didn't touch a nerve at all, as much as you'd like to think you did.

I notice from your post count that you're not that much of a contributor to the forum and I'm wondering why that is. Is it because you don't really know which side of the fence to sit on?

I can't work out whether you are a 'cleaner' who would really love to be a cleaning contractor or a 'cleaning contractor' who wants to be a cleaner.

I'm baffled but won't dwell on it .............................

[shelton]

Judging someone by the number of their posts is folly and I'm surprised at you.  I usually have better things to do (although today is an exception).

If I have something to say, I'll say it.  The difference is that I choose what I say and don't feel the need to comment on EVERYTHING.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I expect the same in return.

I think you are a friendly guy who is genuinely trying to help, but has developed a bit of an ego over the last couple of weeks - manners cost nothing.

I'm baffled but won't dwell on it .....................

And that will be my final post on this matter - I have no intention of being reeled in. 

[CMS]

Thank God for that.........some people! 

[AJCleaningServices]

I have just come back home here is my long post:

except couple of cases…

What happened to those jobs???

Two customers refused to use our service anymore, one of them had already lady who was doing ironing with smaller hourly rate than ours at that time…

Please explain this to me...............

Why do you clean yourself? Is it because you have to cost them too low to put a cleaner in?...

You have to start business somehow.  Our business plan was start doing cleaning ourselves and then expand business employing people.  You have to have money to do it in a different way or have a different source of income.

Please explain this to me...............

Why do you have to cost them too low? Is it because the Client sees you cleaning yourself and expects a low charge?
 

A client would like to pay a fare charge, a one man band cannot justify his/her charges if they are equal to the cleaning companies.

It's a vicious circle that you have to break.

Do you want to grow a business or be a cleaner? 

Now when I have got a stable sour of income I am able to grow the business, the circle has already been broken:
Quote from here

Harrogate, North Yorks, this is a rich area but what I have found is if you market your self as professional (expensive) company you will get the good jobs…
… £14.50 per hour is my labour rate but on some jobs it works out a lot more as much as £17 per hour…
… i did fill my book of work on lower priced jobs, once you have money coming in then try to get the worth while jobs. good luck Phil

--------------------------------------------------------

…My current perspective is that taking on staff is more hassle than it's worth and I do not have the inclination, funds in the bank or know-how to do this, not to mention all the associated headaches that go with it - I can't afford holiday, sick, maternity pay, etc . .. 

Turn it around . . . What if I take someone on, increase the number of contracts I have and then my employee walks.  I'm left in exactly the position I wanted to avoid - ie. more work than I can handle by myself…

From my own experience let me just say that managing business (whatever kind of business) is not easy.  If you managed to start a business (a one man band is also business) you can expand it.  It is a question of motivation: do you what more money or not?

As far as lack of finances is concerned let me suggest you to increase your charges, right a business plan and get a loan if you need it.  As I said it is a question of motivation…

And as I understand your answer is:

...  I just want to charge my £15p/h…

I am afraid, I have to say:  I do not believe that “one man band” can get paid so much for doing domestic cleaning…

Quote from here

Harrogate, North Yorks, this is a rich area but what I have found is if you market your self as professional (expensive) company you will get the good jobs...

...£14.50 per hour is my labour rate but on some jobs it works out a lot more as much as £17 per hour...

Kind regards,
Arthur
 

[shelton]

<< am afraid, I have to say:  I do not believe that “one man band” can get paid so much for doing domestic cleaning…>>

The £15p/h figure is the average across all my customers, so you a half right, I guess!

I have found that if you market and present yourself correcty and have a friendly and welcoming attitude, you can surprise yourself.

It's not that I'm not motivated (I could sit on my *rse all day and let hubby bring the money in) - it's just that at this stage, I have absolutely no need to grow.

[AJCleaningServices]

...I have found that if you market and present yourself correcty and have a friendly and welcoming attitude, you can surprise yourself...

A friendly and welcoming attitude helps a LOT, but for me it is still hard to believe…  I may be wrong as you live on the south of the UK where cost of living is higher, so I would not argue about your charges...
Let me just say one more thing about expanding a business:
I cannot repeat exactly what I heard or red somewhere, but it was something like:

if your business is not growing it is declining

]

Wishing you all the best
 
Arthur

[shelton]

<<if your business is not growing it is declining>>

Hahha.

That sounds like the management claptrap I left behind 10 years ago!  Lives in the same category as;

onboarding
we'll take that offline
take it on board
what's your bandwidth?
low hanging fruit
cookie cutter

Oh, how I laughed. 

Let's end the day on a positive . ... .   have a nice day!

 

[D woods]

Dont forget to think outside the box.And touch base.

[CMS]

Only when it comes from 'left field'.............

Seriously though...........

Call it what you like but I happen to agree with Arthur.

If a business is not growing it's declining (compared to others around it who are moving forward).

[CMS]

Did anyone used to play 'Bingo' in meetings...........we did.

We had a sheet of paper in a grid and in each square we had one of those 'sayings' that we've just mentioned.

Everyone had a sheet and when you heard the word/saying you marked it off.

The first one to fill the sheet won!

[Morph]

YOU'RE FIRED!