[Paul Coleman]

Well that's another customer gone today.  I got the cheque through the post with a brief note saying they don't want their windows cleaned any more.  It may be coincidence but there does seem to be a spate of it since I started WFPing.  Before WFP, there would be an occasional cancellation.  Since WFP, there have been 5 in three months - though I can only be certain two of them were due to my work with WFP.  One said she couldn't afford me (and it was way underpriced anyway so no loss), two said my work was spotty (though one of them is still a customer as I went around to resolve it) and one today with no reason (not that they need one).  Did anyone else find that there was a spate of cancellations when they first started on WFP?  I did expect a few anyway as a lot of people dislike change but it's not always been the ones I expected.
To balance this up a bit, I have acquired a bit of work that I got because of WFP so it's not all bad.
Also, I have taken it upon myself to cancel a few jobs as difficult access is more of a burden with WFP as there is more equipment to lug around.  Also, a few of them kept messing me around for payment so they are now history.





Ah well.  Only 262 customers left now.  Ho hum   

[windows_chepstow]

Shiner, doing tops only, I've lost one 'due to WFP' in five months and I dropped another.

The first one said she thought my water would damage her wooden window frames and the second only started complaining when the bloke of the house lost his job; couldn't get another; so his missis had to go out to work.

At first they complained that their windows weren't cleaned, so I called back the next day (Saturday) with my ladders and checked them.  They were imaculate and the only marks on them were on the inside.

This month they complained to Wor Lass that the water takes too long to dry on the windows!

Dropped.

I sometimes brag that all my customers are 'nice', or at least neutral towards me/us.

And that's how I like it.  It's not a good feeling turning up to clean someone's house thinking that they don't want you; so we don't.

Window cleaning should be stress(ish) free!

But about now the Christmas debt has taken hold and some of your customers will be feeling the pinch.

Some people, instead of being honest and saying, 'sorry mate, we can't afford you', will critisize your work.  But never let them off lightly.  Check it carefully.  Promise to put it right (if it's wrong).  Tell them you're only human and will ensure it's done correct next time.  Make them squirm a bit.

[marc al]

  I have lost a couple this week, the first for quite some time, no reasons given and I don't bother to ask. Also lost a local nightclub and bowling alley, 100 quid a month, they told me they were doing it themselves - since found out that the boss thinks it doesn't take long enough, although he only sees me do the insides as I always did the outsides early morning, romour has it they have found someone to do it for 30 pounds!

  I don't mind but I wish they had the balls to tell me the truth, and before I had done the outsides and returned later to do the insides - that really made my blod boil - but revenge is a dish best served cold.

[24-7 S C Services]

Evening Everyone,

I have started to tell my new customers, that they must clean the insides of their windows after my first visit, otherwise people may think I have done a bad job. Believe it or not, this is actually working!!!! I recently started a large 5 bedroom house, all Georgian windows. When I went back on the second clean, I politely told her, if she did not clean the insides of her windows, I would not be coming back!!!!! And she did....

Many Thanks

Andrew

[macc]

shinner, i lost about 10% when i swiched but now targeting houses with dormers etc that were difficalt or impossible 2 get to.

higher priced than the ones i lost. i no its gutting 2 loose customers youve had 4 years, but the wives think its the best thing since sliced bread having them all cleaned.

another good point to remember is only another wfp can take this work, not some cheap cowboy starting up or some one on bennifits then giving up cause its hard work.

wfp does have a few downers 2 it, but it opens up a lot more openings.

macc.  

[rosskesava]

When we started using wfp I expected to lose a few customers. We lost about 30 out of 368 in two months which was not so serious. During that time normally I would have expected to loose one or two.

What I didn't expect though was the number of complaints and the having to return and do it again. With trad method a complaint was so rare. Maybe one or two a year. with trad methods we only ever went back and done a job twice in 5 years.

One real big problem being on the coast is seagull sh*t. Often wfp does not remove it all. I don't know how the manufacturers say it does. It doesn't. I have seen the proof to many times.

Lately we've done a job in the morning and 6 hours later the windows are still wet. If you put yourself in the postition of the customer who is used to looking out of dry clean windows as soon as the w/c is gone but then the windows stay wet for hours?

Last month we got a new contract and it included 226 14" by 36" paines of glass and we priced that part of the job for wfp. The whole outsides of the building had been painted about 4 months before and the glass had lots of places where the rain water had leached out the paint onto a lot of the glass. When I rubbed it with a cloth it came off quite easily.

WFP didn't even touch it so we had to do all 226 paines with a mop and squeegie. Yesterday the same job was due again so we done the job with wfp thinking that as the first clean had got the glass up to standard......

Today we went back and done all 226 paines again with a mop and sqeegie.

WFP does have some seriously good benifits and for some jobs it is incredible but for others, it a pain in the rear.

If I could go back in time I would now loose all the jobs over 1st floor high and just used trad methods. WFP is a lot of hassle, a lot of spotty windows and complaints and I don't know how many on this forum get perfect results everytime. We've tried it every which way and done this and done that but for a lot of windows, it doesn't cut the ice so to speak.

We've also picked up quite a bit of work (that we've then done trad) that had been done by various wfp companies because the customers are fed up with the results. We got one real good job 3 weeks back. The windows had been done earlier that day with wfp and from the outside they looked ok but from the inside they were a mess and being right next to the sea, there were outlines from seagull sh*t all over the glass.

I get phones calls everyday and they used to be a either a request to do a job or a request for a quote. I now dread the 'complaint' calls. The 'you did my windows yesterday.... blah blah ... bad job done....' and so on. I don't like answering the mobile now is case it's a complaint.

All in all wfp does have many plus sides but along with that comes a lot of hassle and I've looked at jobs done by other wfp's and I'm yet to see the 'perfect' job that so many say they get.

Also in terms of organising a busy schedule each day, dealing with complaints and some times having to go back to a job costs a lot of time and money.

Maybe it's the levels of sea salt on the glass around here? I wish someone would explaint it.

Cheers

[macc]

marc, down to £30, how long will he turn up for, must be on HMS pay role

[Paul Coleman]

shinner, i lost about 10% when i swiched but now targeting houses with dormers etc that were difficalt or impossible 2 get to.

higher priced than the ones i lost. i no its gutting 2 loose customers youve had 4 years, but the wives think its the best thing since sliced bread having them all cleaned.

another good point to remember is only another wfp can take this work, not some cheap cowboy starting up or some one on bennifits then giving up cause its hard work.

wfp does have a few downers 2 it, but it opens up a lot more openings.

macc.  

I'm just taking the view now that any jobs I lose are making room for new, better priced work.

[Roy Harding]

Ross

I have experenced the exact opposite, I have been cleaning using a squeegee for over 21yrs and if there is a mark or spot belive me it comes off. I have been using wfp for two and a half years, In that time I have not lost one single customer and only had one complaint. That was not about the clean but the amount of water on his bear wood.

Yes you get stubon bird muck but a soak do another window come back hay prestow.

All I can say is perhaps its the area you live, but I have had loads of customers say what a better job it does. But I do have plenty of water so perhaps that helps.

I would never go back to total squeegee work ever.

Roy

[neil100]

I got home from work tonight. Two cancellation letters with 2 cheques in.

One account was £13.50 every 2 months, I had put his price up by £3.00, from £10.50. but it was still underpriced, Had not told him it was going up so its my own fault, No reason given just dont call again.

The other cancellation was a Farmer who I have known for a long time, they said they were cutting back so my services were not required. I wish he had told me to my face when I cleaned them last week instead of a little note.

Did some collecting last night, A £15.00 customer told me not to call again as the wife had made other arrangments.

Now I dont know if these cancellations are because they dont like wfp or because my prices went up 20% at the start of the year when I switched to wfp. But I'm not worried, After tea i went through my round book, I made a List of customers I have lost and a list of New customers gained from Oct 05, Thats when I started to inform my customers I was moving from Trad to wfp cleaning with prices going up across the board by 20% at the start of 2006.

So the List reads 15 customers lost, Including Deaths, House moveing, Wfp haters, Tight wads. A total of £144.00 lost at my new prices.
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

 32 New customers at very good rates totalling £387.00.

So I am £243.00 better off plus my round is paying me 20% more then last year.

I want to canvass in the spring Dormar estates, w/cleaners normally give these a wide berth because they are awkward.

On a positive note, this is my 8th week wfp or 36th day, i'm getting more effeccient but way off the speed I know I can get up to with wfp. Butt I set a new record for a days takeings on Domestic work that shatterd anything I had done Trad, in fact I would get no were near this figure Trad.

£350.00

Nel.

[Paul Coleman]

When we started using wfp I expected to lose a few customers. We lost about 30 out of 368 in two months which was not so serious. During that time normally I would have expected to loose one or two.

What I didn't expect though was the number of complaints and the having to return and do it again. With trad method a complaint was so rare. Maybe one or two a year. with trad methods we only ever went back and done a job twice in 5 years.

One real big problem being on the coast is seagull sh*t. Often wfp does not remove it all. I don't know how the manufacturers say it does. It doesn't. I have seen the proof to many times.

Lately we've done a job in the morning and 6 hours later the windows are still wet. If you put yourself in the postition of the customer who is used to looking out of dry clean windows as soon as the w/c is gone but then the windows stay wet for hours?

Last month we got a new contract and it included 226 14" by 36" paines of glass and we priced that part of the job for wfp. The whole outsides of the building had been painted about 4 months before and the glass had lots of places where the rain water had leached out the paint onto a lot of the glass. When I rubbed it with a cloth it came off quite easily.

WFP didn't even touch it so we had to do all 226 paines with a mop and squeegie. Yesterday the same job was due again so we done the job with wfp thinking that as the first clean had got the glass up to standard......

Today we went back and done all 226 paines again with a mop and sqeegie.

WFP does have some seriously good benifits and for some jobs it is incredible but for others, it a pain in the rear.

If I could go back in time I would now loose all the jobs over 1st floor high and just used trad methods. WFP is a lot of hassle, a lot of spotty windows and complaints and I don't know how many on this forum get perfect results everytime. We've tried it every which way and done this and done that but for a lot of windows, it doesn't cut the ice so to speak.

We've also picked up quite a bit of work (that we've then done trad) that had been done by various wfp companies because the customers are fed up with the results. We got one real good job 3 weeks back. The windows had been done earlier that day with wfp and from the outside they looked ok but from the inside they were a mess and being right next to the sea, there were outlines from seagull sh*t all over the glass.

I get phones calls everyday and they used to be a either a request to do a job or a request for a quote. I now dread the 'complaint' calls. The 'you did my windows yesterday.... blah blah ... bad job done....' and so on. I don't like answering the mobile now is case it's a complaint.

All in all wfp does have many plus sides but along with that comes a lot of hassle and I've looked at jobs done by other wfp's and I'm yet to see the 'perfect' job that so many say they get.

Also in terms of organising a busy schedule each day, dealing with complaints and some times having to go back to a job costs a lot of time and money.

Maybe it's the levels of sea salt on the glass around here? I wish someone would explaint it.

Cheers

As you say, I'm wondering if it's the salty air around your way Ross.  It sounds like you've had a lot more problems than I have (though maybe I've yet to hear all mine yet).
A lot of the work I do comes up really well but I'm further inland than you (Gatwick).

[windows_chepstow]

When we started using wfp I expected to lose a few customers. We lost about 30 out of 368 in two months which was not so serious. .....

Maybe it's the levels of sea salt on the glass around here? I wish someone would explaint it.

Cheers

Ross,

That's a lot to lose, 30 out of 368.  We have around 350 customers, but I know most of my accounts are far smaller than yours.  I'm the 'terraced-house king'.

But my point is we have a similar number of customers who can scrutinise our work.

I know there's three of you in your operation.  Could this have any effect on your WFP working methods?

I know when I'm working with Wor Lass, she doesn't like hanging about, and sometimes I'll work quicker and use less water than I really should, just so that she can get started - trad; especially when it's cold.

So working as a three-some with some WFP and some 'trad' could pose some problems.

Do you think that this could be some of your problem?

[rosskesava]

Hi Tosh

Although there's 3 of us we don't always work together. We've had to re organised ourselves because 3 workers and wfp doesn't mix so I don't think it's that.

Quiet often one does the wfp work and the other 2 do the trad work elsewhere. It's mix and match thing which has improoved efficieny no end because 2 jobs are being done at the same time.

On the job we did yesterday we used roughly 250 ltrs to make sure a good job was done. When the windows were dry (some 4 hours later) - they were a mess. Spotty doesn't begin to describe it. We had scrubbed them for ages and then carefully rinsed avoiding above the tops. I was knackered.

We've tried 5 different brush heads. We've replaced every bit of our RO system. I even bought a second tds meter in case the first one bought was faulty. We bought replacement barrels in case for any reason they old ones were contaminated and we still get some awfull results.

We do get a lot of good results but that's all I'd call them. I've yet to see a spotless result.

Maybe it's as The Shiner says - salt from the sea. The vast majority of our work is along the coast. With a mop and squeegie you learn over a few years how to do things so as all the salt is cleaned off. For instance on badly salted windows if you go over a bit you've already squeegied - 10 minutes later you'll see loads of white circles on the glass. Or with cloths. You can't just dry out a cloth and use it again. All you'll get is smears.

Maybe it's like that with wfp in some way.

The other problem is like yesterday. Today we had to redo yesterdays work. That meant I had to cancel all todays jobs which I had previously phoned and then rearrange them for tommorrow. Some customers weren't so happy but most were ok. Tomorrows work has now been rearranged for Monday as we've commmercial work Thurs and Fri. That means the planned routes and organisation for next weeks work has to all be redone yet again. On top of that, we now have too much work for Tuesday so we'll have to pay another window cleaner for the day.

It's that aspect of wfp problems that sends me nuts. There's not only the lost time which is lost money, but there's the loss of efficiency which also costs. Then there is my time reorganising it. And the worst bit, it's all hassle on top of an already busy schedule.

With a mop and squeegie it worked everytime without fail. Less money earnt but simple.

As far as lost customers directly attributal to wfp over the last 9 months - 47 of them.

The work gained though for arkward jobs and others more suited to wfp - 17 but those 17 are worth one and a half times as much as the 47 lost. So it's not all bad.

Cheers

[Sir Squeaky]

Well done Ross again. Not afraid to be honest after spending a lot of money.
Most around here are too proud to admit it's faults.

Wfp is the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Since some people around here have started using it I've picked up probably 3 times as much work as usual including commercial.

It's the same question every time:
"Do you clean windows properly with a "wiper" rather than this hose thing?"
"I'm fed up with the mess my w/c leaves now, the windows just aren't cleaned properly"

Every time I chuckle and say "I know, I'll be there in the morning"
As such, they're always very happy to have me instead, and I get a cheerful new customer.

Thing is, I've turned down many new jobs because they're wfp'd by w/c'ers I know.
It's getting harder to say no, as it's their own fault.....

Rog.

[AuRavelling79]

I'm with Roy - not a single customer lost! (I almost wish there were - then I could replace them with better paying!)

Ross - if those frames are leaching out paint then it's down to shoddy workmanship by the painters/poor frames - don't take on the guilt trip mate - it's the painters that should be coming back and worrying - not you!

Q. Is it worth doing trad? (Safety Risk and Financial) If so - do it - if not tell customer it ain't your fault and goodbye!

[H h20]

Same here as above,not lost any,all i get is nice clean windows and frames,must be my brushes  ,Gaz

[Morph]

Yup, I have to agree with Earl (Gaz), my patio has never been so clean

[neil100]

I have just been looking through my lists again.

I have lost 4 customers who did not want them cleaned Wfp. They all said I could do them Trad but they were underpriced or risky ladder work so I said its Wfp or look for a new W/C. Loseing the rest is mainly to do with the price increase.

The 4 lost cos of Wfp adds up to whopping £31.00 a month.

Out of the 32 customers I have gained, ( just added another to the list ) 10 of those are a direct result of going Wfp, If I had not gone wfp I would of not taken them on cos of too much ladder risk or they are leaded or windows to high.
The total price of the 10 new customers is £139.00 a month.

So far the change as been worth it. If I was haveing the problems Ross is haveing I would have to think twice.

For me Bird poo as not been to big a problem. I know how to look at glass and see poo . You do get some poo, ( which is a real stinker to get off the glass ) from the local seagull dropout brigade who have had an heavy session allnight glue sniffing. That sticks like glue to the window. I have spent 5 mins with some poo getting it off.

If its salty rinse and rinse, clean and rinse, Try Gaz brushs.

Nel.

[rosskesava]

Sorry, if windows are cleaner using wfp then that says something about traditional skills and technique used before.

I've cleaned (and still do) patio doors with gg4, a mop and squeegie and they come up immaculate. No marks, no smears, no bird doos, no spots and just absolutely gleaming.

To say that wfp does a better job is maybe stretching things.

I admit the frames come up much much better. And there's the safety aspect also.

Hi Malc, the leaching wasn't from the frames, it was from the walls above and from the new paint above which when it rained ran a residue down over the glass. WFP did not touch it or remove it at all but a mop and squeegie did.

Also, the job in question is worth a bomb every month and those window are the only one that can be done wfp. We do the whole building.

The picture below probably explains things a bit better. The glass you can see is about a quarter of the glass we done yesterday and today both sides and the agents demand a spotless quality job. It's the paint leaching into the rain and runningdown from above that is the problem.

[farkam]

hi guys,

I'm planning to change to wfp, but after some posts claiming wfp doesn't sometimes do the job properly, i'm thinking to do all tops and hard to reach areas with wfp and bottom ones trad. ?!
Does anybody practice this method? anyway we can always make sure windows are left spotless at the bottom as customers usually check those ones.