[deeege]

  let me also remind im not the slightest bit racist, buy Lithuanian beer often AND East euro food takeaways ,follow basketball over there and my bro is half french by marriage ,no end of other foreign stuff that Im sure will also come to me but not at this minute .

C'mon Tosh, stop deleting these posts for racism, obviously can't be racist if you drink Lithuanian beer AND eat Eastern European takeaways.

 

[home6442]

I used to work for a great company but took voluntary redundancy a few years back.
Just couldn't stand to work for them anymore.
Here is a quick history of why.
Factory announces that 40% of the work would be going to China.
One week later 150 temp. foreign nationals given full time contracts.
A week later 200 jobs to go.
200 guys all with between 15 and 30 years of service made redundant
using a points system that favoured new starts. ( All won compensation but company took the hit)
Overtime and shift allowances reduced.
Sick pay removed.
No pay rises.
Subsidized canteen closed and so on.
This is a company that's making huge profits so these measures where not about surviving.
Things like this are happening all over the place but we cant blame foreign nationals for it
nor can we blame people for being angry or concerned.
The politicians knew when they opened the borders that it would benefit their rich business friends.

[simonr]

just a point of interest here we, in the lakes have people coming up from burnley & bolton & spots like that undercutting prices, they're english. there is 1 polish lad but he only comes from lancaster & he's not cheap   i also know builders who are saying the same about lads from away undercutting

[Tom White]

  let me also remind im not the slightest bit racist, buy Lithuanian beer often AND East euro food takeaways ,follow basketball over there and my bro is half french by marriage ,no end of other foreign stuff that Im sure will also come to me but not at this minute .

C'mon Tosh, stop deleting these posts for racism, obviously can't be racist if you drink Lithuanian beer AND eat Eastern European takeaways.

 

I know, I know!!!  It would've been quite a funny post if it had been done in jest, but alas, the poster has the IQ of a brain damaged tree frog, which makes it quite sad really.

I'm not racist 'cos I used to drink Slimovitch (we used to call it 'sleep in a ditch' by the way).

[G Griffin]

It's down to supply and demand, really.
If anything, immigrants are at a disadvantage because many customers would prefer to use a British wc'er, because that's the way they are.
If you can't compete, get out of the game.
And don't blame me, blame Thatcher  .

[CLEANCARE WC]

Viktor did not undercut anyone and sounds like he is doing very well, all the best to him.

I dont know of any foreign wc in my town, I did hear about some polish lads quoting one of my mates £15 jobs at least 5years ago. They quoted £40! Nothing to worry about there!

[Michael Peterson]

Tosh ban him mate hes a right plumb

[Pete Thompson]

It's down to supply and demand, really.
If anything, immigrants are at a disadvantage because many customers would prefer to use a British wc'er, because that's the way they are.
If you can't compete, get out of the game.

And they compensate for that disadvantage by undercutting ferociously.  Perhaps not in Viktor's case but it's rife in parts of London, and that will spread.

My question is, why should we have to compete with cheap foreign labour?  The fact the we live in, and are from england, with english mortgages and living expenses that are comparitively high means we simply can't compete with cheap foreign labour who are happy to work for less. So it is the english worker who is at a disadvantage because our living costs are higher.  Sure, if we want to live 10 to house too then it might be a level playing field.  Or perhaps move our entire family over to poland where the cost of living is so much less, and just send our earnings over perhaps?

Eastern european immigrants are happy to work for half the going rate because its still a relatively high amount of money to them.  By saying "if you can't compete get out of the game" what you are really saying is that you are welcoming foreign workers who will be MUCH cheaper than you simply becuase they will be happy with less money.  Its not a question of one or two people not being able to compete, NOBODY can compete with prices that are half the going rate.

I don't live extravagantly by any stretch, but I couldn't afford to simply half my income.

No matter how you look at it, cheap foreign labour will reduce prices overall, and that's something that in my view is a big problem.  You might not think its a big problem at the moment because it may not have affected you yet, but in a year or two's time when you start to see Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian window cleaners springing up all over the place and undercutting left right and centre and still delighted with the money they are getting, you will soon change your mind about it.

And then the words "if you can't compete get out the game" will start to have a very harsh reality about them.

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'

Still waiting.

It was the Poles at one time, then it was H&S, then it was the hose-pipe ban, then it was securing tank in the van, ladders, flat-roofs. Its cyclical, stick around we'll be talking the same load of old bollox on here again just it'll be different keyboards doing the typing.

Fret not, run a tight ship, be professional, look smart, shave, be polite, get a black van with white sign-writing  be trustworthy and honest. I thought most people wanted a reliable and LOCAL window-cleaner. Its up to you whether you are.

[Dani J]

none of us have any choice where we are born.  its is complete fluke whether you are english or polish or spanish or whatever.  The Uk relies on immigration.  Very very few of you could trace your lineage back and see you based in the UK the entire time.
All i am sensing is an incredible amount of unwarranted fear, generally used to sell certain newspapers.
Polish immigrants arent a new thing, they have been coming to the country for years.  Yet the average price for window cleaning keeps rising.
It seems this debate is still coming down to a group of people who seem to think you can judge a person based on their nationality (xenophobia, not racism) which is utterly stupid.  Its no different from saying all staffordshire bull terriers are nasty dogs that bite children.  Theyre not, it depends on how they are raised. Judge each individual on what they are- an individual.  Theres plenty of awful people that have a British passport but it doesnt make me a bad person does it?

Now thats what i call a wise comment.

[G Griffin]

It's down to supply and demand, really.
If anything, immigrants are at a disadvantage because many customers would prefer to use a British wc'er, because that's the way they are.
If you can't compete, get out of the game.

And they compensate for that disadvantage by undercutting ferociously.  Perhaps not in Viktor's case but it's rife in parts of London, and that will spread.

My question is, why should we have to compete with cheap foreign labour?  The fact the we live in, and are from england, with english mortgages and living expenses that are comparitively high means we simply can't compete with cheap foreign labour who are happy to work for less. So it is the english worker who is at a disadvantage because our living costs are higher.  Sure, if we want to live 10 to house too then it might be a level playing field.  Or perhaps move our entire family over to poland where the cost of living is so much less, and just send our earnings over perhaps?

Eastern european immigrants are happy to work for half the going rate because its still a relatively high amount of money to them.  By saying "if you can't compete get out of the game" what you are really saying is that you are welcoming foreign workers who will be MUCH cheaper than you simply becuase they will be happy with less money.  Its not a question of one or two people not being able to compete, NOBODY can compete with prices that are half the going rate.

I don't live extravagantly by any stretch, but I couldn't afford to simply half my income.

No matter how you look at it, cheap foreign labour will reduce prices overall, and that's something that in my view is a big problem.  You might not think its a big problem at the moment because it may not have affected you yet, but in a year or two's time when you start to see Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian window cleaners springing up all over the place and undercutting left right and centre and still delighted with the money they are getting, you will soon change your mind about it.

And then the words "if you can't compete get out the game" will start to have a very harsh reality about them.

That's what I said, supply and demand.
We have cheap, foreign labour because they can do it. Just as British workers can do it. If you're saying we have an immigration problem, that's a different matter. But what do we do about it?
I'm only suggesting to deal with the system as it stands, which is easier than changing the system.
There is a supply of this labour but I don't think the demand for it is as great as some are saying.
You can't stop the supply of these workers but you can affect the demand for your services- read Matt Bateman's post, for a start.
You can moan and complain but that's not going to stop someone competing with you or you can fight back and make yourself competitive.
I've said it before: if you can't compete on price, beat them on quality and service.
You've got a huge advantage by not being one of them foreigners, for starters.

[formb]

lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'

Still waiting.

It was the Poles at one time, then it was H&S, then it was the hose-pipe ban, then it was securing tank in the van, ladders, flat-roofs. Its cyclical, stick around we'll be talking the same load of old bollox on here again just it'll be different keyboards doing the typing.

Fret not, run a tight ship, be professional, look smart, shave, be polite, get a black van with white sign-writing  be trustworthy and honest. I thought most people wanted a reliable and LOCAL window-cleaner. Its up to you whether you are.

+1

[Perfect Windows]

lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'

Such as:

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=42866.0
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=20452.0

Comments identical, just dated six and seven years ago respectively.

Vin

[formb]

Chicken little.

[ben M]

none of us have any choice where we are born.  its is complete fluke whether you are english or polish or spanish or whatever.  The Uk relies on immigration.  Very very few of you could trace your lineage back and see you based in the UK the entire time.
All i am sensing is an incredible amount of unwarranted fear, generally used to sell certain newspapers.
Polish immigrants arent a new thing, they have been coming to the country for years.  Yet the average price for window cleaning keeps rising.
It seems this debate is still coming down to a group of people who seem to think you can judge a person based on their nationality (xenophobia, not racism) which is utterly stupid.  Its no different from saying all staffordshire bull terriers are nasty dogs that bite children.  Theyre not, it depends on how they are raised. Judge each individual on what they are- an individual.  Theres plenty of awful people that have a British passport but it doesnt make me a bad person does it?

I Couldn't Have Said It Better Myself!
well done mate

[robertphil]

where did all this start that its wrong to be racist? im going along happily with denying im racist   so I don't get barred, but now im thinking I COULD POSSIBLY be  a tinsey bit racist on the employing front .  

 the thing is we cant all be lovey dovey  , a  certain percentage have to hate sometimes or the mixture  of forum  personalities would be all wrong.
 a newbie joining wouldn't know where to stand , might be forced to fake his persona
  we cant all be lovers,some must be fighters,

" im a lover not a fighter" that's a line in a song anybody know it ?


edit "ebony and Ivoreey

[Tom White]

where did all this start that its wrong to be racist? im going along happily with denying im racist   so I don't get barred, but now im thinking I COULD POSSIBLY be  a tinsey bit racist on the employing front .  

 the thing is we cant all be lovey dovey  , a  certain percentage have to hate sometimes or the mixture  of forum  personalities would be all wrong.
 a newbie joining wouldn't know where to stand , might be forced to fake his persona
  we cant all be lovers,some must be fighters,

" im a lover not a fighter" that's a line in a song anybody know it ?


edit "ebony and Ivoreey

Hello Romeo Papa, send key setting over.

Look, can you please use English when you post on this forum?  It's this countries national language and even Victor, a Lithuanian, has made the effort to use English to a decent standard in his posts, and it's not even his first language.

Thank you.

[Tom White]

lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'

Still waiting.

It was the Poles at one time, then it was H&S, then it was the hose-pipe ban, then it was securing tank in the van, ladders, flat-roofs. Its cyclical, stick around we'll be talking the same load of old bollox on here again just it'll be different keyboards doing the typing.

Fret not, run a tight ship, be professional, look smart, shave, be polite, get a black van with white sign-writing  be trustworthy and honest. I thought most people wanted a reliable and LOCAL window-cleaner. Its up to you whether you are.

I agree with Matt here, which must be a first.  If I ever agree with Vinty, don't mess about, just shoot me.

[vinty]

Lets take our country back.
NO EU no problem with undercutting.

[ben M]

Lets take our country back.
NO EU no problem with undercutting.

another racist comment!