[G Griffin]

The term "racist" is used far too freely in my opinion.
Im certain that some people do not have the first clue of what the true definition of a racist is, but they are all too quick to accuse someone of being racist without proper reason.
 

Absoloutly Andy Hitler was a racist, I think it's the politically correct indigineous types who pedal this drivel, maybe their racist and take the view that they need to speak up for some because they think they aren't capable. 

No, Hitler was an evil, murdering bustard. I think that's a bit more important than calling him a racist.
And he only had one ball.

[dave f]

wait untill youve had your round canvased prices less than halved then see if your racised head comes, on you will sing a different tune thing is people want to be politicly correct when it suits them double standards me thinks

[vinty]

Keep it British - is that racist. You gotta be kidding. That's what's wrong with this country not enough who stand up for our own. We need to look after our own before we all lose our jobs or start working for a pitence.

Good post.

[vinty]

Today's employee is tomorrow's competitor.

Do we really want to open the door of our industry to an army of eastern european workers who will happy to earn half what we earn?  It won't take them long to realise they dont need to be employed, and can easily go-it alone, charge less and still be better off.  Imagine how quickly word will spread in their community.

And all because they learned how easy it was to earn good money by being employed by someone for a year.

Very dangerous road to go down if you ask me, not just for you but for us all.

(and btw, nobody could blame eastern europeans for this, if I was polish I would do exactly the same.)

I am starting to agree with all this now, I took the Polish out for a trial run yesterday from 8:30 -4:30 and did what i would normally manage to do in a day with him,

First off,he was on time,presentable,and did what i said and he got the gist of it straightaway , he did seem very abrupt with me and seeemed a little like he was better than me ,but im sure that wouldn't matter as long as he did the work. What did worry me was the questions he was asking ie How much does the equipment cost ,how to make the water etc.. Ive decided to not employ this person as he later told me he had his own house in Poland which had been paid for by his late father , so i dont personally think he is worthy of the job as he doesn't seem like he needs it so much and also one rich customer of mine has specifically told me he HATES  the way they are stealing our jobs and i wonder if a lot of my customers (being of the older generation ) feel the same ! Also we cleaned that very customer with the polish man and i could sense the bitterness ,So deciding to hold out for a Brit ,having said that the English guy i was supposed to take out today didn't answer his phone !

He was picking your brains, he probably wants to start his own round and import his own workers as they are easier to control, if i was Polish i would do the same.

[dave the rave]

LOL

[AuRavelling79]

The term "racist" is used far too freely in my opinion.
Im certain that some people do not have the first clue of what the true definition of a racist is, but they are all too quick to accuse someone of being racist without proper reason.
 

Absoloutly Andy Hitler was a racist, I think it's the politically correct indigineous types who pedal this drivel, maybe their racist and take the view that they need to speak up for some because they think they aren't capable. 

Who's Andy Hitler? Has he got a mate called Dave Amin or Jack Gaddaffi?

[AshWhite]

Been doing the rounds on facebook that if you are of a specific faith you can be excempt from the bedroom tax if your bedroom is used as a prayer room (whatever that is?) Like I said the path this country is taking worries me and I don't know what kind of a society my son will be living in we are gradually becoming a country who are racist against their own people. 

That well known, trusted source of reliable information - the Facebook newsfeed, eh? Let's not bother checking facts for ourselves, let's just climb aboard the angry bus! (Sorry, Tosh).

[Bens windows]

wait untill youve had your round canvased prices less than halved then see if your racised head comes, on you will sing a different tune thing is people want to be politicly correct when it suits them double standards me thinks

Agreed , I have so many window cleaner friends in my town and we never undercut each other ,its a different story when they come from overseas

[robertphil]

doubt he will startup after just 1 days tuition,but you never know.   that foreign lad I employed who crashed my van I later found out was also stealing takings.He thought I was dozy bit like your Polish lad

 Straight after he left me he set up on his own,cocky he was bought same colour van and called his business almost the same name as me and canvassed customers of mine  - a year down the road he no longer has a website and iv never actually seen him cleaning anywhere

[G & M]

Had one, great worker. Bought a van behind my back to set up. Got rid of for that and lots of other reasons like dangerous driving. Cost me a few grand in the end. Lost a few good customers to him. Will never employ one again.

[Tom White]

Been doing the rounds on facebook that if you are of a specific faith you can be excempt from the bedroom tax if your bedroom is used as a prayer room (whatever that is?)

Enrique, have you been zip-sniffing again?  Stop it, it's killing your brain cells.

[Tom White]

Had one, great worker. Bought a van behind my back to set up. Got rid of for that and lots of other reasons like dangerous driving. Cost me a few grand in the end. Lost a few good customers to him. Will never employ one again.

I once was in charge of a Welsh lance corporal.  He was the laziest, scruffiest, dullest urchin I've ever had the misfortune to serve with in my life.

I would never employ a Welshman based on this one Taff I was forced to supervise, 'cos obviously, based on a huge sample of one, I can make a massive sweeping generalisation about the whole.

Well, I could if I wasn't very bright.

[ben M]

im finding this whole thread pretty uncomfortable.  Its basically is coming down to debating which nationality are better to employ, which is essentially a redundant debate. 
Employ the individual, not the passport.  You should never need to discuss the nationality of your employee.  And with regards to you customer who hates polish people, I would dump him, rather than not employ a Polish person because your customer doesnt like them.

totally agree

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

Been doing the rounds on facebook that if you are of a specific faith you can be excempt from the bedroom tax if your bedroom is used as a prayer room (whatever that is?) Like I said the path this country is taking worries me and I don't know what kind of a society my son will be living in we are gradually becoming a country who are racist against their own people. 

Its not the path this country is going down that is worrying, it is the fact you believe what is 'doing the rounds on Facebook' is actually the reality of the situation.

Im sure your son will grow up to be a balanced, mature level headed individual, despite the fact that the odds are stacked against him, if you get my drift 

[Mike #1]

Only met 1 polish guy does some work for one of my custys who are renovating their house seems like nice guy and very hard worker they also employ his wife who has her own cleaning business .

They have come to this country to make a much better life for themselves by working hard you should judge each person individually .

I would not employ some of the people i grew up with and have known all my life as they are lazy benefit cheating scum . Who i got sick of the sight of them while i worked hard they sat on their arses watching telly all day .

So we moved so never had to see them again  . Mike

[Pete Thompson]

They have come to this country to make a much better life for themselves by working hard you should judge each person individually .

That's true, and they are often hard workers.  Also you can't blame them for doing what's best for them, we can blame the government for making those policies.

The danger is, once they (and others in their community) see how easy it is to be a self-employed window cleaner they'll simply start up on their own charging half the going rate.  Could you compete with that?  Most couldn't.  But they will be happy with it, becuase it's more money than they could ever earn working for someone.

If word gets around in their communities (as it obviously has for car-washing etc), there could easily be a huge tide of hard-working, polish window cleaners who do a good job at half the going rate.

And all because someone employed them for a year.

As I said, very dangerous road to go down, for ALL of us.

[Tom White]

The danger is, once they (and others in their community) see how easy it is to be a self-employed window cleaner

You sure about that?

My experience is that it takes years to build up a half-decent round.  If these guys are only in the UK for the short to medium term, will they wish to invest the time it takes?

We had all these discussions when it was the Kosovans, but nowt happened.

[Pete Thompson]

My experience is that it takes years to build up a half-decent round.  If these guys are only in the UK for the short to medium term, will they wish to invest the time it takes?

Maybe years to build a good round, but just a few weeks to build an "ok" round that still pays more £15 per hour.  What other job in the UK are they going to get such a good hourly rate for what is essentially an easy job and being self-employed too.

Its an absolute no-brainer, if I were polish I'd be doing it in a heartbeat, and it's already starting to happen in some parts of London.  A mate of mine works down there and he said it's getting so you can't move for eastern-european window cleaners, who he said are mostly hard-working but massively undercut and are happy with that money.

Seriously, this is going to be a major problem over the next few years IMO.  I think we'll look back to the good old days when we were able to charge a decent amount.

[formb]

It isn't going to be that easy for a Polish person to set up on their own. There was one round here that I knew. He gave up as it was too difficult to find work. There are other foreign looking names that are licensed with the council but I really believe that it isn't the issue it is being made out to be.

We have employed 3 Polish people, 1 of whom was here for 2 years. He was pretty good, a fully qualified mechanic, and extremely hard worker. He left to get a job in a garage.

Some of our customers don't like getting their windows cleaned by a lad from the next village, let alone someone from Eastern Europe.

Also why on earth do you think that someone from Poland would charge less than you??? They are not stupid, they actually think the way business is done in this country is stupid. Like the rest of the continent they are natural negotiators. They like to go in high with their prices and be negotiated down.

there could easily be a huge tide of hard-working, polish window cleaners who do a good job at half the going rate.

If you think it is possible for anyone to charge half what you do, and still make enough to live in this country, you are charging too much. I charge enough to cover costs with some profit. Just the same as a Polish person would, otherwise they wouldn't last very long would they?

Maybe years to build a good round, but just a few weeks to build an "ok" round that still pays more £15 per hour.  What other job in the UK are they going to get such a good hourly rate for what is essentially an easy job and being self-employed too.

If they are making more than £15 per hour (£600 per week, £31,200 per year) profit their pricing structure is just fine.

[Perfect Windows]

The danger is, once they (and others in their community) see how easy it is to be a self-employed window cleaner they'll simply start up on their own charging half the going rate.  Could you compete with that?  Most couldn't.  But they will be happy with it, becuase it's more money than they could ever earn working for someone.

Why on earth would they do that?  Think it through.

What you're implying is that someone who could earn, say, £300 a week would voluntarily choose to earn £150 a week.  Why would they do that? 

Also, you're working under the common misconception that price is all that matters.  Within reason, it doesn't.  I've posted previously about a customer I picked up at £20 who sacked her old cleaner at £3.50 because he was useless. 

Not everyone buys on price, or we'd all be driving Dacia Sanderos.

Vin