[telfordwindowclnr]

Just wondering if anyone is going to the solar event tomorrow at the Liberty Stadium in Swansea? We could meet for a coffee. 

[AshWhite]

Nice stadium, you might want to sample the delights in 'Studio 95' while you're in the area 

[telfordwindowclnr]

So the event is today! Up at 4.30am! On the 5:40 train now.
This event has over 120 installers from across Wales attending as well as some guy from the National Solar Centre, among others. An ideal place to network.

It will look at how the PV industry will develop in coming years and especially how maintenance will become a larger part of the industry.

Any of you guys have any thoughts as to how solar panel cleaning will develop in your business?

[Alex Wingrove]

Yes

[telfordwindowclnr]

Yes

Nice!

[Ian101]

Ive heard theyve got some really good speakers on at the university  

would maybe havegone if a little closer.

hows it going to develop .... well I can only see it becoming more of an add on for me and I think the fact for a normal house you need a long pole of over say 40feet it means quite an investment so hopefully prices will stay at a good rate for us.

will prob push me into ipaf training as well along with a H&S course .... cscs card etc so can go for some larger stuff (not in deeside though  )

[trevor perry]

i think it would be possible to invent a device that cleans them automatically and would not costmuch to install

[Dave Willis]

I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.

[telfordwindowclnr]

I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.

Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion?   

[telfordwindowclnr]

Ive heard theyve got some really good speakers on at the university  

would maybe havegone if a little closer.

hows it going to develop .... well I can only see it becoming more of an add on for me and I think the fact for a normal house you need a long pole of over say 40feet it means quite an investment so hopefully prices will stay at a good rate for us.

will prob push me into ipaf training as well along with a H&S course .... cscs card etc so can go for some larger stuff (not in deeside though  )

The speakers were among the best I've heard Ian!  IPAF is brilliant because you can take it into windows, gutters fascias etc. h & s course is a good idea too.  Learned today that about 2GW will be installed this year alone. It won't be in the domestic market, but the bulk is in commercial. There will be upto 800MW installed by the end of this month. They are pushing it through quick due to a change in the ROC. Go for the big stuff, but yes, not in Deeside!

[ronnie paton]

you going to the cleaning show steve ??

if so which day?

[Dave Willis]

I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.

Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion?  

Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.

[telfordwindowclnr]

I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.

Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion?  

Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.

How long were the panels installed for before cleaning?

[telfordwindowclnr]

you going to the cleaning show steve ??

if so which day?

I won't be ronnie. I'm focussing on the solar side of things as folks know. I'm going to be working with swansea university after some discussions from the seminar today. They want us to carry out some cleaning for them on various PV installations in order to get some of the first 'real life' research for the % benefits of spc. Up til now, the UK studies have been carried out under controlled circumstances. So this will be a first. They have the best equipment available and are designing new tech for monitoring PV output. They can also look at the panels on a microscopic level before and after cleaning, which is very exciting.  The university knows the benefits are there, we just want real time, accurate figures. Most of the stuff at the mo is from USA so some UK figures would be great.

[ronnie paton]

well done steve sounds interesting and will not do your company any harm at all, let us know how it goes and thanks for the quick payment.

[Dave Willis]

I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.

Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion?  

Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.

How long were the panels installed for before cleaning?

About a year

[telfordwindowclnr]

well done steve sounds interesting and will not do your company any harm at all, let us know how it goes and thanks for the quick payment.

I will mate. No worries about the payment. 

[Dave Willis]

I think most domestic units have the facility to download the software and produce their own readings. I can tap into mine at any time and read the output and plot my own graphs of performance. the biggest problem is doing it scientifically - uv output can change with time of day, cloud cover etc. I've seen some fantastic claims on cleaners websites - probably bollox to be honest. I think I got about two percent increase in performance and that might have only lasted a few days depends on how fast the dust will fall again etc.

[telfordwindowclnr]

I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.

Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion?  

Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.

How long were the panels installed for before cleaning?

About a year

That will be why. When panels come from the factory, many have a protective coating on the glass. It takes a while for that to wear thin and for the dirt to accumulate. People started having panels installed about 3 years ago. It is only now that people are noticing a loss. If you leave your panels 3 years now before their next clean, you will notice they will be a lot dirtier. Then when you clean them, you will notice an increase in output.

It is the main reason spc has been a slow burn. But now, it is taking off big time.

[telfordwindowclnr]

I think most domestic units have the facility to download the software and produce their own readings. I can tap into mine at any time and read the output and plot my own graphs of performance. the biggest problem is doing it scientifically - uv output can change with time of day, cloud cover etc. I've seen some fantastic claims on cleaners websites - probably bollox to be honest. I think I got about two percent increase in performance and that might have only lasted a few days depends on how fast the dust will fall again etc.

Domestic units can have the facility to monitor, but most people did not pay the extra money to do so when they had their panels fitted. Much of today's info at this seminar was aimed at frustrated PV installers who have have the guts dragged out of their industry. Now they are scratching their heads what they can do next. Experts there today were advising them that maintenance and monitoring is the way to ride out the current lull in the fitting side of things. They were advised to retro-fit monitoring systems to their previous customers and look at how to increase performance from the installed panels. A large part of which is cleaning.

Monitoring can take in to account the variables that you mentioned. Swansea uni spends tens on thousands on research, trying to squeeze an extra 0.5-1% efficiency from panels. I was asked by them to be a guest speaker today and did a PowerPoint presentation proving the benefits of spc with real life printouts, bar charts etc, from solar arrays we have cleaned. The professors there realised that cleaning has been severely underestimated and that's why they want to seriously pursue this avenue further. Some of the figures mentioned may sound outlandish, but if provable, you can't argue with them.

I agree that spc is very very circumstantial. Very few arrays are alike. Each will deteriorate at a different rate.