[elite mike]

steve  if you can earn out of pv ,good on you 

i am not having a go, just giving my own experience .

i am more than happy to relieve my custys of their cash   

[telfordwindowclnr]

steve  if you can earn out of pv ,good on you 

i am not having a go, just giving my own experience .

i am more than happy to relieve my custys of their cash   

Good man!
I'll be honest, I don't mind if no one else does it! It just seems a good opportunity to miss out on.

[Dave Willis]

Morning Steve, yes good luck. Saves us a lot of hassle if you do the hard stuff first.
I certainly don't know any more than you do and can only put my point across regarding my own system. Unfortunately the written word can be taken as more aggressive and negative than the spoken one.

[telfordwindowclnr]

Unfortunately the written word can be taken as more aggressive and negative than the spoken one.

I agree completely mate. I do appreciate everyone's input though because it helps identify issues that need to be addressed.

[Ian101]

So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?

You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?

There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.

£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.

We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.

ooopppsss   is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?

[telfordwindowclnr]

So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?

You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?

There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.

£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.

We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.

ooopppsss   is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?

Get whatever you can get mate. But if they begin to quiz you about ROI, you will be stuffed! 

[Ian101]

ROI blimey im just the window solar panel cleaner 

[Ian101]

gonna tell them that solar steve says about 60% on a dull day   

[SunShineCleaning]

So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?

You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?

There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.

£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.

We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.

ooopppsss   is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?

Get whatever you can get mate. But if they begin to quiz you about ROI, you will be stuffed! 

What price is correct for a 4kw system to give the customer good ROI?

[telfordwindowclnr]

So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?

You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?

There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.

£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.

We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.

ooopppsss   is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?

Get whatever you can get mate. But if they begin to quiz you about ROI, you will be stuffed! 

What price is correct for a 4kw system to give the customer good ROI?

It took me and installers hours to do the number crunching, so I ain't gonna stick it on a forum!   ???You're gonna have to do the maths mate. Sorry. 

[DeLuce]

What is ROI? Sorry, but I'm perplexed, or did I miss something in an earlier post?

[SunShineCleaning]

What is ROI? Sorry, but I'm perplexed, or did I miss something in an earlier post?

Return of Investment

Solar brought it up  as he says that £50 for a 4kw system id too much.

If the customer makes £100 from the system after  cleaning then charging them £50 per 6 months give ZERO ROI

I assume that the Price you can charge to still give the customer good ROI is lower than most window cleaners would do them for.

I ask because I did the math last year based on industry expectations of the improvement and the average household system. I couldn't honestly say that they were loosing that much by not having them cleaned. We are not in a high dust or grime area and I didn't want to lie to get work so I pulled the marketing.

[SunShineCleaning]

http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/should-you-spring-clean-your-solar.html?m=1

Flat panels next to a desert should be cleaned but tilted panels is a Northern European country rain is sufficient.

That said if anyone can make money for doing something unnecessary then go for it!

[DeLuce]

Thanks for the reply Sunshine. Now you have added a little more to my knowledge and it's enlightening to have a more rounded out view.

[telfordwindowclnr]

What is ROI? Sorry, but I'm perplexed, or did I miss something in an earlier post?

Return of Investment

Solar brought it up  as he says that £50 for a 4kw system id too much.

If the customer makes £100 from the system after  cleaning then charging them £50 per 6 months give ZERO ROI

I assume that the Price you can charge to still give the customer good ROI is lower than most window cleaners would do them for.

I ask because I did the math last year based on industry expectations of the improvement and the average household system. I couldn't honestly say that they were loosing that much by not having them cleaned. We are not in a high dust or grime area and I didn't want to lie to get work so I pulled the marketing.

All of your post is completely correct, but industry expectations were very conservative. They are a proving to be a lot lower than real-life increase in output.

[telfordwindowclnr]

http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/should-you-spring-clean-your-solar.html?m=1

Flat panels next to a desert should be cleaned but tilted panels is a Northern European country rain is sufficient.

That said if anyone can make money for doing something unnecessary then go for it!

Good post. 
Only trouble is, there is a huge German solar panel cleaning industry. Second only to USA. The USA and Germany are light years (geddit?) ahead of the UK in their solar journey. That's why I have done my research mainly based on those two countries. We are a good 10 years behind. In Germany, they will be installing 22GW of PV in 2013 alone. That's more than we have in the whole country!

Based on the German industry and findings here in the UK, which hopefully soon will be confirmed by a university on a PV site they own, solar cleaning in the UK is here to stay.

[SunShineCleaning]

The public has a proven track record of paying for  things they THINK  they need.

I've convinced mine to have their aready clean windows cleaned "to keep on top of them"

If you can charge £2-3 per panel for a domestic and half that for  commercial multi system sites then go for it. However I would caution using % increase as a blanket selling point for 2-3kw systems as those that have installed them probably only just get their money back in 5 years.

My customers complain that the benefit to them is less than £100 per year on small systems so in effect, even though they get 'free' electricity, what they have done is pre pay for it.

[telfordwindowclnr]

The public has a proven track record of paying for  things they THINK  they need.

I've convinced mine to have their aready clean windows cleaned "to keep on top of them"

If you can charge £2-3 per panel for a domestic and half that for  commercial multi system sites then go for it. However I would caution using % increase as a blanket selling point for 2-3kw systems as those that have installed them probably only just get their money back in 5 years.

My customers complain that the benefit to them is less than £100 per year on small systems so in effect, even though they get 'free' electricity, what they have done is pre pay for it.

% increase is not our only selling point. Have you visited our website? It's quite informative as to the other benefits of having your panels cleaned. Obviously the smaller the system, the smaller return. Residential is not our main market.

Your customers should have known they were pre-paying for their electricity before they bought the panels. It won't take 5 years to get their money back, nearer 11, but after that they will be in profit.

Also, arrays produce most when people are at work and we use most power after dark when the panels produce less so clients need to do everything in order to maximise their return. The more informed installers are now including maintenance as part of their sales pitch along with panel degradation. The industry is changing people's attitudes from 'have panels to make money', which was flawed, into 'have panels to save money'. Because the government changed the FiTs, you can still make money, but it is harder. You will however SAVE A LOT of money over the course of 20 years with energy price increases.

I don't own my own house, but if I did, I would fit panels. It is a no brainer. There is a huge stockpile of panels in warehouses at the moment and installers are offering the cheapest deals ever. The FiT is lower, but cost of installation is %wise lower still. ROI-wise, you get a better deal now than when the FiT was at its highest.

If you own a house and think you will stay in it, you should fit panels now.

[SunShineCleaning]

Good point Steve. It does depend on what is promised to the customer re. benefits. Sadly many installers promises didnt match the reality. If a window cleaner gets the pitch right everyone can win.

Information and education. Point taken. 

[Dave Willis]

Strange, I thought panels made no electricity after dark. 
The big banks of panels would offer an excellent roi. Can't see the residential market for cleaning taking off somehow - not at the £5 per panel some guys expect. I don't see them as any harder to clean than a velux window to be honest so £1 a panel could still be profitable for me as I have the equipment anyway. Customers can't see if they are clean anyway.

I have noticed a 100% increase in performance since I cleaned them in the dark. Think I'll put that on my website.