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Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 05:36:50 pm »
i think it would be possible to invent a device that cleans them automatically and would not costmuch to install
Ive been looking for such an item for quite a while now Trevor. There is nowt I can find that is not in a prototype phase or comes in at a sensible price. If you find one please please let me know because there is a big market for it. :)

Dave Willis

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 05:42:01 pm »
So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?

You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 06:02:29 pm »
Yes

I wasnt there, I was answering another question

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 08:57:45 pm »
So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?

You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?
There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.

£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.

We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.

Dave Willis

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 10:10:56 pm »
that's an unbelievable increase to be honest. I don't doubt what you are saying but if it's overcast anyway then doubling the performance might mean going from zero to one watt if you see what I mean.
The cleaning figure was plucked from the sky but the householder will want proof that they aren't wasting their money in my opinion. lets face it the kind who pay for their systems want to save money.
I would be more interested to know the difference in performance in mid day maximum sunshine, unless of course you want to 'massage' the figures.

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 10:42:57 pm »
that's an unbelievable increase to be honest. I don't doubt what you are saying but if it's overcast anyway then doubling the performance might mean going from zero to one watt if you see what I mean.
The cleaning figure was plucked from the sky but the householder will want proof that they aren't wasting their money in my opinion. lets face it the kind who pay for their systems want to save money.
I would be more interested to know the difference in performance in mid day maximum sunshine, unless of course you want to 'massage' the figures.
You are entitled to your opinion.  If it is it an 'unbelievable increase', you do doubt what I'm saying. The cleaning figure was not plucked from the sky. SMA inverters are high quality products and let us get direct comparisons like the one I highlighted.
No one has a vested interest in that system, it is not owned by a 'householder wanting proof they are not wasting their money'. It is a village hall.
It is impossible to massage figures, you have to lie. The read outs are the read outs.

It seems your vast experience of solar cleaning comes down to one array on your own house. Ours comes from cleaning thousands of panels on many sites. If I was a neutral reading this, I know who I think was more credible.

Dave Willis

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 10:51:11 pm »
No, you've missed my point completely. Because you took your reading on an overcast day your 4kw system would be barely producing anything so to nearly double the performance is easy. You can then tell your customers you increased the performance by nearly fifty percent. Fifty percent of bugger all still isn't much is it? See what I mean?

Dave Willis

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2013, 10:58:51 pm »
Now if your 4kw system was producing 2kw on a blazing cloudless day and Super Steve turns up with his magic water and hey presto! My unit is producing 4kw - I'd be really impressed! A fifty percent increase at maximum is far more impressive than fifty percent more of a dribble.
I bet you don't have thousands of those on your books.

elite mike

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2013, 11:01:01 pm »
i have a small system which works very well for me  8)

 i tend to clean them every 4 to 6 months, dont seem to see any benefit to be honest.

i have cleaned them on cloudy and sunny days with flocked brushes and ro water .

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2013, 11:14:18 pm »
Now if your 4kw system was producing 2kw on a blazing cloudless day and Super Steve turns up with his magic water and hey presto! My unit is producing 4kw - I'd be really impressed! A fifty percent increase at maximum is far more impressive than fifty percent more of a dribble.
I bet you don't have thousands of those on your books.
On our blog in the next day or two will be an article about Howle Manor. It will have a copy of their solar generation everyday during February. Look at the figures, then look at the bar chart on the separate graphic. The day before we cleaned was overcast. the day we cleaned was overcast. the day after we cleaned was overcast. The 17th 18th & 19th, we had wall to wall sunshine. On the 26th, the day we cleaned, because the array was off, the panels hardly produced. On the 27th, an overcast day, the panels produced as much as the wall to wall sunshine days!

My weather postcasts can be checked with the MET office. We do that too for customers if they ask, to give them a like for like comparison so that we cannot fudge the figures.

I will let you know when it goes live and perhaps you can explain the percentage figures to me.

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2013, 11:15:10 pm »
Steve, i don't doubt your figures for a second and respect you for embracing the solar cleaning in the beginning. You've also put alot of work other peoples way which i find commendable.
But you sorta lost me on an previous thread about how to clean solar panels.
The conclusion i came to was the only difference in actually cleaning solar panels compared to a velux window for a wfp'er is in the risk assessment. Commercial site rules applicable where necessary, but the clean appears to be just the same.
I haven't seen anything yet that leads to a different conclusion to this.
Although in my view you stuck your neck out by putting forth reasons why there is more involved than turning up with wfp and pure water. Unfortunately, all this is still in its infancy and therefore i take all claims (not just yours) posted, with a pinch of salt.
I look forward to any uni study hitting the market though.

Dave Willis

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2013, 11:19:25 pm »
I think you need to be very careful of putting sixty percent increase in performance on your website to be honest. Sixty percent in February is not the same as sixty percent in June. Maybe you need to discuss this with your university Professors because I think your claims could be very misleading.  


elite mike

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2013, 11:22:49 pm »
pinch of salt be buggered i have give you my honest user trials over the past 18 months

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2013, 11:26:40 pm »
pinch of salt be buggered i have give you my honest user trials over the past 18 months

i don't doubt it. But figures on their own mean nothing. Or can mean anything. Don't take offence. It's just how i see it.

elite mike

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2013, 11:34:49 pm »
pinch of salt be buggered i have give you my honest user trials over the past 18 months

i don't doubt it. But figures on their own mean nothing. Or can mean anything. Don't take offence. It's just how i see it.

Hi Mark.
No offence taken  ;D,

what i am trying to say is i dont seem to notice any difference whether i clean them or not.

i just do them because its easy for me to just pop over them  ;D as i have the gear   ;)

i have the software on my pc to measure output of pv installation

but does not make a great deal of difference in output , cleaned or not with ro water

Dave Willis

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2013, 11:35:32 pm »
Mike, I've just cleaned mine (bloody freezing) and they are working at maximum now through the night! Try it.  ;)

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2013, 11:36:27 pm »
Steve, i don't doubt your figures for a second and respect you for embracing the solar cleaning in the beginning. You've also put alot of work other peoples way which i find commendable.
But you sorta lost me on an previous thread about how to clean solar panels.
The conclusion i came to was the only difference in actually cleaning solar panels compared to a velux window for a wfp'er is in the risk assessment. Commercial site rules applicable where necessary, but the clean appears to be just the same.
I haven't seen anything yet that leads to a different conclusion to this.
Although in my view you stuck your neck out by putting forth reasons why there is more involved than turning up with wfp and pure water. Unfortunately, all this is still in its infancy and therefore i take all claims (not just yours) posted, with a pinch of salt.
I look forward to any uni study hitting the market though.
Thanks for your observations and honest opinions mark. On previous threads, I've been quite clear that anyone can physically clean a panel. That is not difficult at all. But providing 'the package' for large companies is different. Not everyone can do that part of it because they either lack the knowledge, confidence or drive. At the moment, and it is only at the moment, we have a USP and are maximising on that.

I already have my next USP but there is no need to discuss it or use it at the moment while we are still getting a great deal of interest in our current one. I spoke to the professors about it today and they are very keen for us to work together and to do research on this too. But that may take another year or two to test rigorously and to complete.

I mentioned twice in my presentation today about spc being in its infancy. A the moment, the technology we are using to clean them is very primitive compared to what it will be in 5 years. There is an awful lot of research being done by a couple of universities which will change the whole look of the solar industry in the UK in the next 2 years.

But for now, we work with what we've got and provide as professional service as we can. But times are changing very quickly with the technology and how we clean them will change too, so it is good to keep informed, which is all I'm trying to do.

I'm only on the forums to try to inform others too. This is a brilliant bolt on package for our businesses. Hour for hour i earn more on spc than anything else.

This is not the case with you personally Mark, but there seems to be an awful lot of resistance and almost an unwillingness to learn by some on here. That's fine, it's up to them. But those of us on here who do want to progress, learn, be educated and move into a very exciting industry with lots of potential, should not be hammered on every thread we start.

Instead of arguing the toss with those who know more than us on any given subject, it is far more productive to tap into their knowledge. That's why I went to the seminar today, to learn. And learn I did.  ;D ;D

elite mike

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2013, 11:37:22 pm »
Mike, I've just cleaned mine (bloody freezing) and they are working at maximum now through the night! Try it.  ;)

lmao  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2013, 11:40:50 pm »
elite mike, good man.  ;D
Solar steve, fair play to you.  :)

Re: Solar Event Tomorrow In Swansea.
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 11:43:07 pm »
elite mike, good man.  ;D
Solar steve, fair play to you.  :)
Cheers mate.  :)