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WGB

  • Posts: 312
wiring pump battery to van
« on: March 10, 2013, 07:33:10 pm »
Hi lads, have an ordinery car battery in back of van to power pump for wfp which i just bring into house to charge up over night. Is there a easy way to wire to van to charge it or would it be a job for the pros? Any advice welcome thanks Wayne.

dave0123

  • Posts: 3553
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 07:40:18 pm »
Quote
http://www.thecleaningwarehouse.co.uk/hydroflo-pump-controller-built-in-batt-charger-1353-p.asp

bought this and set wired it all up the other day, very easy to do. you can buy the same one from diffrent suppliers with there names on also.
Dave.

Deangsi

  • Posts: 663
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 08:32:37 pm »
Easy job about 15 mins just run two thin cables from the positive and neg from the van battery to the system Bart. I normally run it through the wing and in the door shut then under plastic trim no need to charge anything

craig21t

  • Posts: 132
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 10:30:48 pm »
Only problem with a split charge relay, or controller with charging capabilities (like the on linked to) is that if you do not drive a lot of miles, you will not put much charge into the battery.
So you will still need to charge the battery with a mains charger now and again.


dave0123

  • Posts: 3553
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 11:09:24 pm »
yeah best to keep it topped up i imagine, but for the price of the controller without the charger and with might as well just go for it and ti all helps. extra tenner or what ever it is.
Dave.

Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 08:10:28 am »
dont forget inline fuse if ur wiring to van battery

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 08:53:41 am »
Yes with either the charging control or a separate split relay you will still need to periodically charge the battery. This is because the alternator is trickle charging the second battery and the amount of charge will be based on how long and how fast the alternator is running.

Put another way your pump is drawing between 3 - 7amps an hour an hours driving will probably replace 1 - 2 amps.

Spruce has posted a very detailed reply on the dynamics of a split charge relay
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=130038.0

And absolutely ensure you have a fuse in line on the two lives but do not exceed the recommended maximum fuse rating.
V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology

Deangsi

  • Posts: 663
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 09:11:17 pm »
Wire the system bat to the van bat no charging ever required no matter how much U drive and the van will always start perfect no problems at all done this for 4 years in 3 vans also know 3 people who do the same

A-W-C

  • Posts: 246
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 09:16:05 pm »
Wire the system bat to the van bat no charging ever required no matter how much U drive and the van will always start perfect no problems at all done this for 4 years in 3 vans also know 3 people who do the same

Is`nt this just like adding to batteries together like doubling the power to 24v ? or am i just being a bit thick ???

dave0123

  • Posts: 3553
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 09:22:11 pm »
Quote
Is`nt this just like adding to batteries together like doubling the power to 24v ? or am i just being a bit thick

it depends how u wire them together, theres two ways of wiring two battery's together one makes 24v the other would make a big 12v battery (parallel). when using the controllers though it doesn't take power out of the van bat so its different.
Dave.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2013, 09:01:39 am »
Yes with either the charging control or a separate split relay you will still need to periodically charge the battery. This is because the alternator is trickle charging the second battery and the amount of charge will be based on how long and how fast the alternator is running.

Put another way your pump is drawing between 3 - 7amps an hour an hours driving will probably replace 1 - 2 amps.

Spruce has posted a very detailed reply on the dynamics of a split charge relay
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=130038.0

And absolutely ensure you have a fuse in line on the two lives but do not exceed the recommended maximum fuse rating.


Since this post Ian refers to, I have a volt and amp meter combination unit installed in the van and have noted these points in our visual monitoring.

If my pump draws 4 amps per hour and I work for 4 hours pumping water, I have used 16 amps from my battery. In my case I have a Citroen Relay with a 150 amp alternator. At 3/4 charged my 110 amp Numax leisure battery will only accept 8 amps from the alternator. (I have the charging circuit protected with a 15 amp fuse which has never blown in 4 years.) If I drove for an hour that day (charging is all about time taken not distance travelled) then I would only put 8 amps back into the battery. If I drove for 3 hours the chances are that my leisure battery still wouldn't be fully charged as the fuller the battery gets, the lower the charge rate it will accept.

It doesn't make any difference whether the engine is idling or at 3000 rpm on the motorway, the battery is still charged at the same rate.

My son in law has a small Transit Connect L220 LWB and his charging statistics are similar to mine with his 85amp Numax leisure battery. He travels 9 miles to work and back each day, so he spends about an hour 'on the road'. Once a month he uses his van for a 48 mile round trip to visit his parents and washes their windows at the same time.

Each time I have checked his leisure battery it is about 75% charged. He is supposed to take it out and bench charge it every week, but I know he hasn’t done it for a few months now. He parks in the street/public car park so he can’t run a cable out to the van. One day it’s going to catch him out. It’s the same old thing though; the flatter the battery gets the more charge it will accept. His cable is also protected by a 15 amp fuse as is mine and it hasn’t blown yet either, telling me than the battery has never been charged higher than 15 amps.  
 
We have a seperate SCR fitted which works independently of the controller. The latest one fitted the SIL's Connect van is an intelligent unit which is more simple to fit.

At most I work 10 minutes drive away for my customers, so I have to supplementary charge my leisure battery which I do every 2 to 3 days.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2013, 09:15:06 am »
Wire the system bat to the van bat no charging ever required no matter how much U drive and the van will always start perfect no problems at all done this for 4 years in 3 vans also know 3 people who do the same

By your post I get the impression that you have wired the 2 batteries together without a Split Charge Relay to break the connection between the two. I know of a couple of posters who have done this. If this is what you are advising then please accept this cautionary note with all due respect.

It has never been good automotive practice to wire 2 batteries together like you suggested. Both batteries have different characteristics. One is a starter battery designed for a large amp output for a few moments and the other isn't designed for that - rather a low discharge over a long period of time. It would be like linking an ox and a horse to the same plough.

If your are advising someone who has a Ford Transit or Transit Connect then this advice could have further implications. For sometime now, Ford has started to control the charging rate of the alternator via the van's ecu. They would have programmed in certain charging parameters into the software for that standard battery they fit. By linking those together you are screwing with the calculations the ecu has to make, as the ecu would see it as one much bigger battery. The reason why they are doing this is to ensure these diesel engines met Euro 5 and then work towards the next tougher Euro 6 emissions standards. It’s like taking small steps forward to achieve an ultimate goal. I understand that the alternator will charge the battery more on engine deceleration - a simpler version of Kerrs on Formula 1 - regenerative charging I think they called it. I know they were also linking this to another option - when you stop the engine switches off and the moment you touch the clutch it starts again - this is supposed to reduce emissions in stop start traffic.

So these days we have to be very careful when advising on this sort of issue as the resultant damage from following our advice could be very expensive to put right. A new ecu isn't cheap.

(I have copied this reply from the reply I made to another poster on another forum regarding the same subject.)
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 09:33:51 am »
Hi Ian

Please can you update my information.

How does the combination controller/ battery charger work?
I had heard ages ago that the battery charger side will only work once the controller side is switched off.

 
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 09:38:31 am »
Quote
Is`nt this just like adding to batteries together like doubling the power to 24v ? or am i just being a bit thick

it depends how u wire them together, theres two ways of wiring two battery's together one makes 24v the other would make a big 12v battery (parallel). when using the controllers though it doesn't take power out of the van bat so its different.

This is correct. But they will be the same type of battery and linked together with heavy duty cables - see 24 volt lorry battery combos as an example.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2013, 12:24:22 pm »
Hi Ian

Please can you update my information.

How does the combination controller/ battery charger work?
I had heard ages ago that the battery charger side will only work once the controller side is switched off.

 

Hi Spruce
The current range of chargers the charging function active with the control On or Off.

Here is a link to the quick start guide.
http://www.springltd.co/upload/V11%20Charging.pdf
V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: wiring pump battery to van
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2013, 08:26:36 pm »
Hi Ian

Please can you update my information.

How does the combination controller/ battery charger work?
I had heard ages ago that the battery charger side will only work once the controller side is switched off.

 

Thanks for that up date Ian

Hi Spruce
The current range of chargers the charging function active with the control On or Off.

Here is a link to the quick start guide.
http://www.springltd.co/upload/V11%20Charging.pdf

Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)