[Frankybadboy]

wish you all the best vin,

3year ago was that meeting in the carpark

And I thought that day was cold!  If I knew days like today existed I'd never have stepped out of the door.

I do need to thank Franky publicly for getting me off on the right foot three years ago (must have been about this time of year).

Sadly confused on the question of fans versus pencils (he had a brush with both!) but otherwise a terrific start in the game.

Didn't complain when during my first clean he did six.

Got me my first cup of coffee from a customer.

Thanks, Frank,

Vin

thanks vin,
it was a really enjoyable day with you,i am so glad that you took the desesion to take it on,and even more pleased that you gone one step forward again and all within 3years.
it goes to show what happens when you put the hard gaft in and where you can get.

i wish you and your family all the best in the furture.

and if it was any one else i do the same.

love you all frank

[Ian101]

[/quote]

Yes, I've done all my homework but it's still an adventure.

The problem with 'three years to get a franchisee where they want to be' is that they have to pay their bills while you're doing that.  Fortunately I have leafletting down to an art where I can turn on a tap and generate business at a particular rate. 

Vin
[/quote]

Would you care to share this info ? .............. I have heard it said that you work on ratios ?? ...... Ive always been a knock on the door type of person but now just going over to leaflets so any insight would be appreciated 

[Pro-Poler]

His motive is money driven, nothing else, spend the 6 grand on your own set up, leaflet, canvass and earn your own money  

One of my motives is money.  Why are you a window cleaner?  Charity?

I have plenty of other motives as well.

Vin

I do give to charity

[Pro-Poler]

Yes, I've done all my homework but it's still an adventure.

The problem with 'three years to get a franchisee where they want to be' is that they have to pay their bills while you're doing that.  Fortunately I have leafletting down to an art where I can turn on a tap and generate business at a particular rate. 

Vin
[/quote]

Would you care to share this info ? .............. I have heard it said that you work on ratios ?? ...... Ive always been a knock on the door type of person but now just going over to leaflets so any insight would be appreciated 

[/quote]He won't share it because it's bull, no one gets work fom leafleting like turning on a tap

[Ian101]

Yes, I've done all my homework but it's still an adventure.

The problem with 'three years to get a franchisee where they want to be' is that they have to pay their bills while you're doing that.  Fortunately I have leafletting down to an art where I can turn on a tap and generate business at a particular rate. 

Vin

Would you care to share this info ? .............. I have heard it said that you work on ratios ?? ...... Ive always been a knock on the door type of person but now just going over to leaflets so any insight would be appreciated 

[/quote]He won't share it because it's bull, no one gets work fom leafleting like turning on a tap
[/quote]


you got rolly eyes ... mine dont work  

[Ian101]

oh yes they do 

[Perfect Windows]

He won't share it because it's bull, no one gets work fom leafleting like turning on a tap

I'm on the horns of a dilemma here.  Anyone who has waded this far through the thread will have noticed plenty of questions and comments, all constructive.  Then we have "Enrique"s contributions, which have been pure sniping.  I try to avoid dealing with personalities but it's clear that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and deal with the elephant in the room.

"Enrique" [edit: he's now calling himself "pro-poler"] on here is "Barby" on another forum I frequent.  I've made him look rather foolish a few times, which he's taken badly; he's clearly come over here to pursue his vendetta.  I've said before that I really do pity him, and I do, for a thousand reasons...

He says that "these franchises are cons", my "leafletting methods cannot work" and my "prices are unsustainable" without any evidence.  I'll leave it to you to decide whether his views are worth the effort of reading.  

I am sorry to have to deal with a personal attack.  I'll try to keep on the substance of the threads.

Vin

[Steve Sed]

My thoughts are that the idea and approach are clearly good. But I would have thought that if you give a turnover figure and you (Perfect Windows) are responsible for customer acquisition, then the turnover you advertise should be there from day 1 or soon after. Three years is too long and a total novice with a modicum of intelligence could get there on his own more quickly.

I would have thought that a better approach would be to start by employing, then selling the franchise to the employee(s) when the work is there/when you are ready.

As for turning the marketing on/off, the problem you will have is that assuming the franchise is geographical, you will struggle to get the same results in a confined area that you might expect from the whole are Perfect Windows cover.

[Perfect Windows]

Would you care to share this info ? .............. I have heard it said that you work on ratios ?? ...... Ive always been a knock on the door type of person but now just going over to leaflets so any insight would be appreciated 

Nothing secret about it.  There are plenty of threads where I do discuss it.

The core is keeping track of what you do.  If you just pop out and drop off a few leaflets you're working in the dark when calls come in.

I keep very accurate records of how many leaflets go out, by what method and where.  Then when someone calls we always ask exactly where they heard of us.  If it's a leaflet I know how it was delivered.

So, I know that overall, if I have 225 leaflets delivered solus (lots of posts on here about how I do this), I'll get a customer (not an enquiry, a customer).  Doesn't matter if it's an area I've covered before, I'll still get 1 per 225.

If I have leaflets delivered with the local free rag, I get one customer for around 800 leaflets.  However, those cost about a third as much to deliver as solus, so the cost isn't too far out.  It's also a lot quicker and easier to do.

The numbers in anyone else's area will be different, so don't base anything on this set.

So, if I need, say 200 customers, 45,000 leaflets will do it.

I hope that answers what you were looking for.

Thanks,

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

My thoughts are that the idea and approach are clearly good. But I would have thought that if you give a turnover figure and you (Perfect Windows) are responsible for customer acquisition, then the turnover you advertise should be there from day 1 or soon after. Three years is too long and a total novice with a modicum of intelligence could get there on his own more quickly.

I would have thought that a better approach would be to start by employing, then selling the franchise to the employee(s) when the work is there/when you are ready.

As for turning the marketing on/off, the problem you will have is that assuming the franchise is geographical, you will struggle to get the same results in a confined area that you might expect from the whole are Perfect Windows cover.

Hi Steve,

Just to clarify, someone else said "three years", not me.  I give over a chunk of work then I want to get them up to their target as fast as they can carry out first cleans.  Bear in mind, though, that at about an hour a pop, 300 first cleans will take twelve weeks of 25 hour weeks, so there is a limit to how fast someone can grow.

Ref the marketing, areas will overlap.  There may well be rationalisation of rounds as time goes on but initially, they'll be covering the city (though without the outlying areas), same as me.

Vin

[SunShineCleaning]

perfect windows is known as onion man on another forum I frequent, at least one other member has left that forum because of him and I have had others pm me telling me how he gets on their neves, he mysteriously left that forum only to recently return for the sole purpose of renting work out it was his first post when he went back.
  

I've left and rejoined this forum about 5 times now. Originally I was 'Bear'.

I have it in me to forgive him.

[Ian Lancaster]

My thoughts are that the idea and approach are clearly good. But I would have thought that if you give a turnover figure and you (Perfect Windows) are responsible for customer acquisition, then the turnover you advertise should be there from day 1 or soon after. Three years is too long and a total novice with a modicum of intelligence could get there on his own more quickly.

I would have thought that a better approach would be to start by employing, then selling the franchise to the employee(s) when the work is there/when you are ready.

As for turning the marketing on/off, the problem you will have is that assuming the franchise is geographical, you will struggle to get the same results in a confined area that you might expect from the whole are Perfect Windows cover.

Hi Steve,

There are 8 Franchised organisations apart from Vin's operating around the country based on my system, all of them successful, some more advanced than others.  Because our franchisees are not in competition with each other there are no exclusive geographical franchise areas.  All the various methods have been tried and tested over several years and I can assure anyone who is interested that they work, and work very well!

My advice to Franchisors is that it should take about 6 months to one year to develop a new start to the position where he(she) has as much work as required.  At the initial stage the new franchisee is asked how much they would like.  In practice they always overestimate and mine now average £750 to £1100 per week (their choice - "comfort levels").  I estimated this development time based on my previous experiences building several rounds.  Starting from scratch it should have taken me three years to appoint and develop six franchises.  In fact it took me just under four years.

As for having the turnover available from day one, as Vin has pointed out this is impractical as a new start would be completely overwhelmed and unable to cope.  

To start by employing would negate all the advantages of franchising as you would be required to register as an employer and then have the legal obligations and expenses involved, to say nothing of the extra unnecessary hassle.

Sorry to butt in,Vin

Cheers,

Ian

 

[Ian101]

Would you care to share this info ? .............. I have heard it said that you work on ratios ?? ...... Ive always been a knock on the door type of person but now just going over to leaflets so any insight would be appreciated 

Nothing secret about it.  There are plenty of threads where I do discuss it.

The core is keeping track of what you do.  If you just pop out and drop off a few leaflets you're working in the dark when calls come in.

I keep very accurate records of how many leaflets go out, by what method and where.  Then when someone calls we always ask exactly where they heard of us.  If it's a leaflet I know how it was delivered.

So, I know that overall, if I have 225 leaflets delivered solus (lots of posts on here about how I do this), I'll get a customer (not an enquiry, a customer).  Doesn't matter if it's an area I've covered before, I'll still get 1 per 225.

If I have leaflets delivered with the local free rag, I get one customer for around 800 leaflets.  However, those cost about a third as much to deliver as solus, so the cost isn't too far out.  It's also a lot quicker and easier to do.

The numbers in anyone else's area will be different, so don't base anything on this set.

So, if I need, say 200 customers, 45,000 leaflets will do it.

I hope that answers what you were looking for.

Thanks,

Vin

cheers Vin 

[Dave Willis]

Just a thought - is there a franchise forum or website out there where people go to find a job? There must be thousands of redundant workers itching to dump their lump sum and start a new life.

[SunShineCleaning]

http://www.startups.co.uk/franchising-forum

[Dave Willis]

http://www.startups.co.uk/franchising-forum

There you go Vin, stick it over there.

[Steve Sed]

Just thinking aloud and I'm sure that Ian has thoroughly investigated this, are there any issues regarding tax on this? If these businesses in effect act as employees in that you provide all the work, and they work wholly for you, do the Revenue not take exception? Or is there a totally different set of rules if you have a contract that says "franchise" at the top?

[Perfect Windows]

... only to recently return for the sole purpose of renting work out ...

Franchising is not renting.  This is a common misconception.

If you buy a franchise, you are buying the right to use the name, uniform, van style, leaflet style, etc, etc of the company.  You're also getting the expertise of the person selling the franchise along with training and ongoing support for as long as you need it.  In our case, you're getting a round management system and as many customers as you want.  You're part of a bigger business and the franchisor (if he has his head screwed on) will do anything to help you to succeed.

If you rent a round, you get a list of customers, you clean their windows and you pay the rent.

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

Just thinking aloud and I'm sure that Ian has thoroughly investigated this, are there any issues regarding tax on this? If these businesses in effect act as employees in that you provide all the work, and they work wholly for you, do the Revenue not take exception? Or is there a totally different set of rules if you have a contract that says "franchise" at the top?

They are entirely separate businesses from the Franchisor and are treated as such.

Perhaps the biggest franchise you know is McDonalds.  Turn up, bung them £90,000 and they'll give you the right to use their brand, name, products and to live off the back of their advertising.  While there are very strict guidelines on how to operate, you are a completely separate business.

Vin

[Steve Sed]

Just thinking aloud and I'm sure that Ian has thoroughly investigated this, are there any issues regarding tax on this? If these businesses in effect act as employees in that you provide all the work, and they work wholly for you, do the Revenue not take exception? Or is there a totally different set of rules if you have a contract that says "franchise" at the top?

They are entirely separate businesses from the Franchisor and are treated as such.

Perhaps the biggest franchise you know is McDonalds.  Turn up, bung them £90,000 and they'll give you the right to use their brand, name, products and to live off the back of their advertising.  While there are very strict guidelines on how to operate, you are a completely separate business.

Vin

The thing is with McDonalds is that they would have a territorial division. I don't know. It could perhaps be perceived as a way of avoiding employer's liability in this instance. I am seeking to understand, not to criticise I should add.