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Ben wood

Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2013, 12:40:45 pm »
Use of work equipment why do you ask

Ben wood

Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2013, 12:42:56 pm »
I dont need google mate to look at how I work hse is more common sense which most of you dont have thats why you need these courses  sorry got to go and do a risk assessment on walking to the car

R.C Property

  • Posts: 1599
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2013, 12:47:14 pm »
I dont need google mate to look at how I work hse is more common sense which most of you dont have thats why you need these courses  sorry got to go and do a risk assessment on walking to the car

I have plenty of that due to the work I do and have done in the past.

I go on these courses to keep upto date with regulations and make sure that I keep myself and others that work with me and use my equipment safe as possible and make sure if anything happens I have done everything to make sure the payout happens!

And when I say people that work with me it's not on window cleaning, it's on the building side of the company!

Ben wood

Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2013, 12:48:50 pm »
It was not all dericted to you mate and I would rather ask hse than some other numpty that makes rules to suit hiam self

R.C Property

  • Posts: 1599
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2013, 12:54:06 pm »
No problems. Yer there are a lot of guys out there that haven't got a clue or and common sense!

Yer good to have someone to go to like the hse to confirm things, like me going to a police approved weighbridge to get them to tell me if van is over weight instead of people that have no clue and dont do it for a job! Lol  ;D

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2013, 01:10:40 pm »
It was not all dericted to you mate and I would rather ask hse than some other numpty that makes rules to suit hiam self
Why do you attack people you don't know Woods i'm trying to understand where your coming from ?

What rules is Andrew meant to have made up ?

I asked the last question as I wanted to know what you thought the answer was, it is The Provision and use of work equipment regulation 98  (use is only part of it) something many will not know unless they go on a course or have the misfortune of having an accident when the HSE get involved.

this information helps window cleaners, like it or lump, its a fact.

I agree some more than others, but we can all learn.
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

Ben wood

Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2013, 01:52:13 pm »
Telling people we need to cordon of areas where using a pole on domestics for one.

Telling us we should not be on flat roofs. Which is a lie. Just use thw correct hse.

Ben wood

Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2013, 01:54:29 pm »
Sorry it tok me so long to reply but needed to do a risk assessment to usw my phone incase I give others and my self brain tumors. I dont attack people o  here I voice my opinion which is what the forum is for. I guss you must know every thing about window cleaning and the risks then.

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2013, 02:03:01 pm »
Sorry it tok me so long to reply but needed to do a risk assessment to usw my phone incase I give others and my self brain tumors. I dont attack people o  here I voice my opinion which is what the forum is for. I guss you must know every thing about window cleaning and the risks then.
I have not been sat waiting for a reply dont worry I have better things to do like paint my nails  ;D Nobody knows everything mate, but your comments above are wrong IMO, Andrew didnt make up the rules, he just explained them, if you dont agree with them thats up to you, Im not here to try and change your mind

My guess is you have had no training on this subject, and totally dismiss anything that makes you question your working routine. I could of course be totally wrong, and if I am, im honestly sorry. At least your open to who you are, although your health and safety part of your site contradicts what you have put on these posts.
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

David Kent @ KentKleen

  • Posts: 1712
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2013, 02:05:23 pm »
We approach our business with a paramount focus on health and safety management, the benefit of which is confirmed by our spotless safety record.
 


 
 
For our Commercial clients we provide a full 5 stage risk assessment in line with the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999, detailing any potential areas of concern. This is submitted to the client prior to commencement of the project.
 


 
 
Health and safety is a large part of our operators training and it is from this perspective that every project is commenced. Needless to say Woods Window Cleaning has full public liability insurance.


Is it all in house training   ;D

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2013, 02:08:03 pm »
Firstly , Andrew Willis , yes you can use them for your course , however i want to put my point across that i could have done it safer , but if i had of gone off the wall of the house by the pitched roof i would have been siting the ladders on mossy steps , as it was my ladder was solid against the party wall , all i should have done was got my longer ladder off .
The balcony shot involed my double being dug deep into the lawn with the top of the ladder wedged between the railings so was not going anywhere , the pointer was footed against the railing , ok so the angle was a bit out but unless the balcony fell down it was not a major risk in my eyes.
If you do decide to use these Andrew , please also quote my explanations .

Of course , there are dafter people out there than me but hey ho .

Rich







  

  
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Ian Lancaster

  • Posts: 2811
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2013, 02:16:45 pm »
I also would like to Invite Ian to attend so he can put his views across to a panel I am inviting including the FWC, HSE and some important established professional window cleaners.

That's very kind of you Andrew.  However before I would consider attending any sort of discussion regarding safety while cleaning windows there is one very pertinent point I have raised many times and to which I require a satisfactory answer but have never received one.

In the earliest days of window cleaning the 'point' ladder was the tool of choice for experienced window cleaners.  Originally just a single to access tall ground floor windows (predominently shops and similar structures), it was developed specifically for use in situations where ideal conditions rarely existed, i.e. firm LEVEL ground, flat vertical surfaces etc. It also had to address the fact that the duration of use was so short that cumbersome safety precautions necessary with 'open ended' ladders were ignored, resulting in accidents.

In collaboration with window cleaners, Shaftesbury Ladders of London developed the window cleaner's Combination Ladder, otherwise known as a Tree-Bottomed Point.

This ladder was carefully designed to address the problem of uneven ground, narrow upper landing points where there was not room for the two ends of an 'open ender' and restricted access where ideal positioning was compromised.  

The basic difference is simple geometry: "Any three points must lie in the same plane".  In other words, except in extreme cases if a pointed ladder is set against a wall, all three ends MUST be in contact with the ground/wall.  Narrowing the top of the ladder reduced stability, so the feet were splayed wide to prevent twisting.

These ladders were used almost exclusively throughout the 40's, 50's 60's and well into the 70's and only began to wane in popularity with the increasing number of 'new' window cleaners entering the trade with no proper training and no knowledge of the existance of the 'correct' ladder.

An 'open ender' ladder is a GENERAL PURPOSE ladder.  It is not designed for window cleaning; in my opinion, based on my considerable experience and training, it is totally unsuitable for the purpose.

A 'Combination' or 'Tree Bottomed Point' (now also referred to as an 'A' ladder) is specifically designed for window cleaning by professionals who knew exactly what they needed and is ideally suited to the purpose if the user receives correct training in its use.

My question, obviously, is why does every 'safety' course deal only with the use of General Purpose ladders and why does the HSE deny the existence of the Window Cleaners ladder and not seek to provide proper professional training in its use by people who know how it was intended to be used by the original designers?

If I were to receive a considered and convincing argument (not one from some government yes man with no professional experience or even appreciation of the peculiar situation window cleaners find themselves in on a daily basis) then I would be happy to attend any discussion.

Until then I will continue to advise all who ask me to place their trust in the people who had their own interests at heart when they designed our ladder and be very wary of 'official' advice from faceless HSE 'experts' who have never spent a day actually practising what they preach, i.e. out cleaning windows on a variety of real properties and facing real situations as all window cleaners do every day of their working lives.


Dave Mills

  • Posts: 277
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2013, 02:25:59 pm »
How many guys take there vans onto a weighbridge to find out there weights??

Not you.  Your figures simply didnt add up.  Plenty of people pointed that out at the time.  Yet youre on here throwing your weight around again.

Dave Mills

  • Posts: 277
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2013, 02:29:37 pm »
As for the tanks they are safe too, the straps will help stop movement in a crash.

Keep on believing that your overloaded van will not crash and that when it does the straps (made to hold loads under braking and cornering forces) will hold the third of a ton of water behind you.

Dave Mills

  • Posts: 277
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2013, 02:36:19 pm »

Video of a crash tested rachet straps
http://youtu.be/UW5WsjZoPeA

Crash tested before straps fitted
http://youtu.be/oFe4FBuEt8k


First search for a Zanussi washing machine says it weighs 63Kg.  Your tank and water weigh FOUR HUNDRED KILOS.  Nearly six and a half times more.  Not really a comparison, is it?

Its your life, do what you want, but dont give out dangerous advice that could kill people.

Steve Sed

Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2013, 02:40:33 pm »
I think the impact cources make things worse by yrying to scare us in to things that arnt right. Its stupid. Why shoild I trust what you say andrew. Lets be honest you.only do the courses to line your pockets from tax payers mate. If we stuck to what you say we would have no work due to some one else coming along and doing the work without a care in h ans s. To be honest I think your a jobs worth numpty
Take it you not been on one?
It's not about not using ladders or. Anything like that, it shows you how to work safely and to the law.


The problem is that he has shown by his postings that he doesn't know the law.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161090.0

R.C Property

  • Posts: 1599
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2013, 02:52:53 pm »
How many guys take there vans onto a weighbridge to find out there weights??

Not you.  Your figures simply didnt add up.  Plenty of people pointed that out at the time.  Yet youre on here throwing your weight around again.

Yes I did got the print out from them to to say it's fine

PoleKing

  • Posts: 8974
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2013, 02:54:23 pm »
Kent, would you mind if I asked who did your H&S stuff?
Was it appraised? Would I be able to have a look (with the purpose of potentially nicking it)?
A while a go someone on here slated my stuff but i've yet to see anyone else's.
No worries if not, or if you've paid for it and don't want to share.

Regards, Darren
www.LanesWindowCleaning.com

It's just the internet. Try not to worry.

R.C Property

  • Posts: 1599
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2013, 02:58:28 pm »
As for the tanks they are safe too, the straps will help stop movement in a crash.

Keep on believing that your overloaded van will not crash and that when it does the straps (made to hold loads under braking and cornering forces) will hold the third of a ton of water behind you.

I never said I believe I will never crash! Anything could happen on the road, could haclve a 17tonn lorry drive into me at 60mph,
Just say the straps are rated at 5tonn each there is a total of 5 straps, held down the same way all the other tanks are.

R.C Property

  • Posts: 1599
Re: Feel free to use .....
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2013, 02:59:15 pm »

Video of a crash tested rachet straps
http://youtu.be/UW5WsjZoPeA

Crash tested before straps fitted
http://youtu.be/oFe4FBuEt8k


First search for a Zanussi washing machine says it weighs 63Kg.  Your tank and water weigh FOUR HUNDRED KILOS.  Nearly six and a half times more.  Not really a comparison, is it?

Its your life, do what you want, but dont give out dangerous advice that could kill people.
 That was just a demo and not compared to tanks.

I've never given out dangerous advice, I don't want the blood on my hands,
Unlike others give out advice that could kill them due to working unsafely!