I also would like to Invite Ian to attend so he can put his views across to a panel I am inviting including the FWC, HSE and some important established professional window cleaners.
That's very kind of you Andrew. However before I would consider attending any sort of discussion regarding safety while cleaning windows there is one very pertinent point I have raised many times and to which I require a satisfactory answer but have never received one.
In the earliest days of window cleaning the 'point' ladder was the tool of choice for experienced window cleaners. Originally just a single to access tall ground floor windows (predominently shops and similar structures), it was developed specifically for use in situations where ideal conditions rarely existed, i.e. firm LEVEL ground, flat vertical surfaces etc. It also had to address the fact that the duration of use was so short that cumbersome safety precautions necessary with 'open ended' ladders were ignored, resulting in accidents.
In collaboration with window cleaners, Shaftesbury Ladders of London developed the window cleaner's Combination Ladder, otherwise known as a Tree-Bottomed Point.
This ladder was carefully designed to address the problem of uneven ground, narrow upper landing points where there was not room for the two ends of an 'open ender' and restricted access where ideal positioning was compromised.
The basic difference is simple geometry: "Any three points must lie in the same plane". In other words, except in extreme cases if a pointed ladder is set against a wall, all three ends MUST be in contact with the ground/wall. Narrowing the top of the ladder reduced stability, so the feet were splayed wide to prevent twisting.
These ladders were used almost exclusively throughout the 40's, 50's 60's and well into the 70's and only began to wane in popularity with the increasing number of 'new' window cleaners entering the trade with no proper training and no knowledge of the existance of the 'correct' ladder.
An 'open ender' ladder is a GENERAL PURPOSE ladder. It is not designed for window cleaning; in my opinion, based on my considerable experience and training, it is totally unsuitable for the purpose.
A 'Combination' or 'Tree Bottomed Point' (now also referred to as an 'A' ladder) is specifically designed for window cleaning by professionals who knew exactly what they needed and is ideally suited to the purpose if the user receives correct training in its use.
My question, obviously, is why does every 'safety' course deal only with the use of General Purpose ladders and why does the HSE deny the existence of the Window Cleaners ladder and not seek to provide proper professional training in its use by people who know how it was intended to be used by the original designers?
If I were to receive a considered and convincing argument (not one from some government yes man with no professional experience or even appreciation of the peculiar situation window cleaners find themselves in on a daily basis) then I would be happy to attend any discussion.
Until then I will continue to advise all who ask me to place their trust in the people who had their own interests at heart when they designed our ladder and be very wary of 'official' advice from faceless HSE 'experts' who have never spent a day actually practising what they preach, i.e. out cleaning windows on a variety of real properties and facing real situations as all window cleaners do every day of their working lives.
Excellent post Ian,
I started in 1970's with the UK's oldest commercial window cleaning company
The Great International Plate Glass Window Cleaning Company
As a Tumbler
Went on to become New Century
Worked on several well known companies
I was part of a specialist access team and included Three part ladder work
All my ladder work centred around A frame ladders
Agree with your comments
However not for access and egress onto roofs
Spent about sixteen years on the tools before going into management of window cleaning operations
Specialised in suspended and mobile elevated work platform window cleaning
Have spent 35 years plus in one way or another in the window cleaning industry
Ian most forum users on Clean IT Up don't get me when it comes to Health and safety as if they meet me or attend our workshops they will know I am far from some health and safety nut case. I do feel I understand legislation but am looking to challenge the FWC and HSE during 2013 to have some clear guidance. I have written to the FWC last week and will approach them next week to ask them to hold an open debate at the cleaning show. If they except could be interesting, and I would welcome your and others input.
Also some of the forum users with strong health and safety opinions come along, or just keep having a pop on here and get nowhere
Regards
Andy
