[hank jr]

Do it yourself just keep all paperwork for 6 years I keep expences in an expanding folder(about £2 from tescos) and keep daily record of earnings then just a case of taking one from other .Tax returns are nice and clear only takes minuetes to fill in .

i just have my weeks work on one spreadsheet and tick off who's paid as i go along. i have not been doing daily earnings, but i have just been totaling my earnings and expenses every week and then writing them in my book, and put fuel receipts in my little receipt folder.

do you bother writing invoices for every single residential customer??? i have not invoiced any residential customers as i was not aware that i needed to???

You invoice commercal or those who work from home and request an invoice, other than that when you get paid from a residental custy then that is it. You should leave a slip to say that the windows were cleaned and payment details etc but not an invoice

Thanks very much for your help and advice. its very much appreciated.

[AuRavelling79]

I asked myself the same question when I started. I thought that if they cost me less than they save me i'd use an accountant.
Paid c. £300 11 years ago-dont pay much more now! Year one, I reckon they saved me an extra grand. I never worked it out after that.
Your accountants fees aren't tax deductible.

I believe they are - for business purposes; so as a sole trader, partnership or Ltd company they are.

As an individual perhaps not - so lets say one of the above or a retired or employed or unemployed person inherits a house or a large sum of money and he hires an accountant (or solicitor) to sort it all out then those charges would not be deductable as they are not in connection with his/her business.

[dave0123]

sole trader without accountant. himself + 1 employee  on 30 hours per week declares a turnover of £40 000
sole trader with accountant. himself + 1 employee on 30 hours per week declares a turnover of £25 000, Who do

The sole trader without an accountant is more likely to get investigation. Because the books done by an accountant is less likely to be wrong and less likely to have things claimed for wrongly. I know they just work of what you give them but anyone would give all receipts to there accountant.. or should be otherwise its pointless.

If your asking who are they more likely to investigate through fraud by not declaring amounts earned.. then both are equal because they suspect everyone.. and think everyone does its up to you to prove it wrong to them..especially cash based business

[chez]

I asked myself the same question when I started. I thought that if they cost me less than they save me i'd use an accountant.
Paid c. £300 11 years ago-dont pay much more now! Year one, I reckon they saved me an extra grand. I never worked it out after that.
Your accountants fees aren't tax deductible.

Are you sure?  My accountant shows them as 'accountancy' in the expenses column.

They are a legitimate business expense, so should be deducted from profit prior to any tax calculation.

Accountants fees are definitely expenses, it's just that you claim them on the following years expenses as the work carried out by the accountant has been done after the end of year.
In my 28 years all I have ever done is keep all receipts, write down in my diary who has paid and how much I have earned each day, the complete list, any tips that day. And that's it. I write down all my expenses for the year and earnings give the short list of totals to my accountant he tells me the legitimate claims and fills in the tax return. Definitely worth his money!!

[Steve Sed]

I asked myself the same question when I started. I thought that if they cost me less than they save me i'd use an accountant.
Paid c. £300 11 years ago-dont pay much more now! Year one, I reckon they saved me an extra grand. I never worked it out after that.
Your accountants fees aren't tax deductible.

That's fantastic, but quite how you missed £5,000 worth of expenses.....

[PoleKing]

After a bit of fishing-I stand corrected, sorry. Seems accountants fees are deductible-been thinking wrong for a decade!
@Steve Sed-It was my first year and I didn't know (at the time) I could do things like claim for a dedicated office (which was my spare room) subsistence after x miles, % of utilities, clothes...the list went on! I just thought my top line was x, subtract start up costs and diesel and 20% of that figure went to line her majesty's pockets.
Stand by the thought of if they save more than they cost though...

[NBwcs]

"I agree wholeheartedly with Ian. I do know though that if the revenue are looking to investigate a window cleaner, they will probably go for the guy who does not have an accountant as opposed to one who does. Who is more likely to have an error? "
 
Apparently, The most likely to be investigated are those that use accountants who have been found in the revenues eyes to be "dodgy", followed by those who dont use an accountant then the "good accountant "  group. but unfortunately we have no idea of who the tax office consider good or dodgy so not neccesarily the safe option using an accountant. On average, you get investigated once every ten years, ive been going nine years without an accountant and without being looked at, so wont be too shocked if they start nosing around soon . Each to his own i suppose, im too tight to splash out on things im perfectly capable of doing myself, its no where near as hard as it looks.

[hank jr]

The bottom line is to keep a record of individual jobs - adding up the daily/monthly,yearly totals (whichever is most convenient but certainly yearly.  Keep all receipts and add up the expenses.  If you don't want to pa for an accountant, make a note of things where you have uncertainty and get HMRC to calculate it for you.  I believe that they are legally obliged to help though they don't like doing it and certainly don't publicise it.

i really do appreciate all of your help - thanks very much everyone. i am also interested in how other people go about keeping there own records and books ect

[bumper]

They do come knocking on your door as i got done  starting out in 1992 there were 4 off us were 3 signing on 1 on self employed skyme getting 40 pound a week well the self employed guy went prison for drink driving, all other 3 off us signing on, one young lad upset this lad who grassed him up for claiming dole money while cleaning windows,so they were  watching his flat and saw us picking him up then they had us all following us for 6 week taking photos of us cleaning getting police to stop us on motorway then asking our names sending in dhs officers and cid to arrest us in street, by that time the guy who went to prison was back out cleaning again with us so we all got arrested  sent to court fined and suspended sentences,the guy who claimed he was self employed got done while still claiming his grant while in prison,my details  were sent to tax man were i was  investigated for payment for  tax and national insurance stamps for all who worked for me came to 2000 pound plus 900 pound for accountant and 1500 pound to be payed back to dole and the cid bloke who went through my window cleaning books adding them all up was sick  coz i was on more money them him,so always watch your back in morning for cars following you,they had 4 cars and a tranny van with blackout windows in back.
bumper.

[AuRavelling79]

They do come knocking on your door as i got done  starting out in 1992 there were 4 off us were 3 signing on 1 on self employed skyme getting 40 pound a week well the self employed guy went prison for drink driving, all other 3 off us signing on, one young lad upset this lad who grassed him up for claiming dole money while cleaning windows,so they were  watching his flat and saw us picking him up then they had us all following us for 6 week taking photos of us cleaning getting police to stop us on motorway then asking our names sending in dhs officers and cid to arrest us in street, by that time the guy who went to prison was back out cleaning again with us so we all got arrested  sent to court fined and suspended sentences,the guy who claimed he was self employed got done while still claiming his grant while in prison,my details  were sent to tax man were i was  investigated for payment for  tax and national insurance stamps for all who worked for me came to 2000 pound plus 900 pound for accountant and 1500 pound to be payed back to dole and the cid bloke who went through my window cleaning books adding them all up was sick  coz i was on more money them him,so always watch your back in morning for cars following you,they had 4 cars and a tranny van with blackout windows in back.
bumper.

When you turn over as much as Dave Morris they send a helicopter with Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones on board.

[hank jr]

They do come knocking on your door as i got done  starting out in 1992 there were 4 off us were 3 signing on 1 on self employed skyme getting 40 pound a week well the self employed guy went prison for drink driving, all other 3 off us signing on, one young lad upset this lad who grassed him up for claiming dole money while cleaning windows,so they were  watching his flat and saw us picking him up then they had us all following us for 6 week taking photos of us cleaning getting police to stop us on motorway then asking our names sending in dhs officers and cid to arrest us in street, by that time the guy who went to prison was back out cleaning again with us so we all got arrested  sent to court fined and suspended sentences,the guy who claimed he was self employed got done while still claiming his grant while in prison,my details  were sent to tax man were i was  investigated for payment for  tax and national insurance stamps for all who worked for me came to 2000 pound plus 900 pound for accountant and 1500 pound to be payed back to dole and the cid bloke who went through my window cleaning books adding them all up was sick  coz i was on more money them him,so always watch your back in morning for cars following you,they had 4 cars and a tranny van with blackout windows in back.
bumper.

taking all this into account would you bother using an accountant if you only earn less than £200 per week?

[paulben]

no do it yourself if you record everything anddeclare every thing you got nothing to hide and nothing to worry about

[Helen]

I asked myself the same question when I started. I thought that if they cost me less than they save me i'd use an accountant.
Paid c. £300 11 years ago-dont pay much more now! Year one, I reckon they saved me an extra grand. I never worked it out after that.
Your accountants fees aren't tax deductible.

Are you sure?  My accountant shows them as 'accountancy' in the expenses column.

Correct Ian, they are a classed as a professional services and valid overhead used in your business
They are a legitimate business expense, so should be deducted from profit prior to any tax calculation.

[Helen]

Hank if you are not earning enough to pay tax, why did you employ someone?
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=163691.msg1367664#msg1367664

[Dick]

The IR may chose to investigate anyone especially if they see any large discrepancies from previous years returns so it pays to keep records and inform them of anything that may look suspicious, i.e. a decrease in income which may be because of illness etc.
I told them when I'd been injured so earned less and they were fine.

[Ben wood]

I use george. So at the end of the year I do I finance report it tells me turnover. Expenses and profit. Very easy as its all added up for me. All I will have to do is put the figures o  self assessment.

[hank jr]

Hank if you are not earning enough to pay tax, why did you employ someone?
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=163691.msg1367664#msg1367664

i only work 2 days per week 

i couldnt stand doing it every day it would do my head in

[Helen]

Hank if you are not earning enough to pay tax, why did you employ someone?
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=163691.msg1367664#msg1367664

i only work 2 days per week 

i couldnt stand doing it every day it would do my head in

oh dear!!!!! why not sell your existing customers to a local window cleaner then and get out of this industry as it is clearly not for you.
Waster

[KS Cleaning]

Hank if you are not earning enough to pay tax, why did you employ someone?
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=163691.msg1367664#msg1367664

i only work 2 days per week 

i couldnt stand doing it every day it would do my head in

oh dear!!!!! why not sell your existing customers to a local window cleaner then and get out of this industry as it is clearly not for you.
Waster

Harsh

[Steve Sed]

Hank if you are not earning enough to pay tax, why did you employ someone?
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=163691.msg1367664#msg1367664

i only work 2 days per week 

i couldnt stand doing it every day it would do my head in

oh dear!!!!! why not sell your existing customers to a local window cleaner then and get out of this industry as it is clearly not for you.
Waster

Harsh

Helen sounds scarey.