[Dani J]

Cheers carl i always find between 60 and 80% will still be there if serviced well after 6 months. I just love the canvas world combined with window cleaning as it fits together perfectly i cant answere about leafleting before canvassing as i dint see the point in making 2 trips to the same house to get custom,
 before window cleaning canvassing i used to build up milk rounds for milkman which is a verey hard sell so i can take al the negatives and the millions of no's the people want to give on the chin and keep fighting for that lovely word yes.

Ill explain how i built my 2nd round so rapid. I source an area of a 5 mile radious or thereabouts thati want to hit and fine toothpick the whole area making note of all the busy roads, roads with big victorian houses with big bay windows and roads with houses that have dorma windows( where are near impossible to hit with ladders safely). Also roads near a lot of greenary trees etc then lastly i go to the quiet lanes with massive houses with long driveways i try stay away from council areas and normal terrace/semi style houses untill i finish all my targeted work.
 i then get a few canvassers together and start with hitting the busy main roads first as thats where you hit the best results. I always start the new deals for a saturday when first building that same week so can benefit from neighbours seeing you and asking for theres to be done too. My target aim is 2 nights canvassing for a full days work on main roads which 9 times out of 10 is achievable. I got a full weeks work (2-250 a day) on just the busy main roads alone by the end of the first month.
The next stage was all the big victorian terrace houses and dormas aiming for front only cleans at £10 a pop which took slightly longer to get than the busy main roads but still can get a good hit rate taking 2-3 evenings to get a days work with 3 canvassers. We built up 2 solid weeks of this type of house from 22 roads over 2 months canvassing 3 nights a week. Again £250 a day 25 jobs still booking. Then to fill the last week we hit all the other areas i picked out where we got a week of £300+ days work from the biggies mixed with the sappy greenary houses.thats when i call it a day with the canvassers when the full month is there after 4 months of 3 evenings a week canvassing(roughly give or take).
Throughout the process i got mega amounts of messers but they are to be expected in the canvassing game.
next step i sourced a cleaner to work with me, after training him up i like to try and compact my round to the max so i play my sale/sd game(you have to play it as a game or it gets to tedious searching for sold houses all day long)
i jot down in a book the address of every for sale and sold board in a 3 sectioned table(for sale, sold and moved in). I wont bore you with the story on those as is self explanitry i waited for the sold boards to go over the weeks/months of working the round and pounce the new owners with a simple pitchof,"hi i have noticed you have just moved in, im the local window cleaner around here and im guessing you would like to be put on the books". and 9times out of 10 they do. I have been doing that since may untill present and have over 1000 addresses in my book that im waiting on pouncing on when the sold boards go down. the list grows and grows each week which is getting to be a headache as is a job on its own now looking for them all through the week and pouncing them on a sunday however its gaining me an extra 20-30 new customers a month from just playing a waiting and observing game.
In the new year thats where the leaflets will come in which im a newbie to so havnt a clue how that will go but from lee's description of it it hopefully will be a success. i will leaflet all the roads i already clean in and hopefully hit another 50 customers from 50000 leaflets. The target is to have £300-350 a day of compact work from this round and At the mo those 50 customers i hopefully get from leaflets will be that icing on the cake and target complete. That is where ill source another worker to help clean the round and get on with starting to build round 3.

whaaa thats a fantastic information, thanks Mick 

[gewindows]

Is this end of year video going to be something along the lines of the Queens broadcast on Christmas Day?

[Carl@Cwc]

Cheers carl i always find between 60 and 80% will still be there if serviced well after 6 months. I just love the canvas world combined with window cleaning as it fits together perfectly i cant answere about leafleting before canvassing as i dint see the point in making 2 trips to the same house to get custom,
 before window cleaning canvassing i used to build up milk rounds for milkman which is a verey hard sell so i can take al the negatives and the millions of no's the people want to give on the chin and keep fighting for that lovely word yes.

Ill explain how i built my 2nd round so rapid. I source an area of a 5 mile radious or thereabouts thati want to hit and fine toothpick the whole area making note of all the busy roads, roads with big victorian houses with big bay windows and roads with houses that have dorma windows( where are near impossible to hit with ladders safely). Also roads near a lot of greenary trees etc then lastly i go to the quiet lanes with massive houses with long driveways i try stay away from council areas and normal terrace/semi style houses untill i finish all my targeted work.
 i then get a few canvassers together and start with hitting the busy main roads first as thats where you hit the best results. I always start the new deals for a saturday when first building that same week so can benefit from neighbours seeing you and asking for theres to be done too. My target aim is 2 nights canvassing for a full days work on main roads which 9 times out of 10 is achievable. I got a full weeks work (2-250 a day) on just the busy main roads alone by the end of the first month.
The next stage was all the big victorian terrace houses and dormas aiming for front only cleans at £10 a pop which took slightly longer to get than the busy main roads but still can get a good hit rate taking 2-3 evenings to get a days work with 3 canvassers. We built up 2 solid weeks of this type of house from 22 roads over 2 months canvassing 3 nights a week. Again £250 a day 25 jobs still booking. Then to fill the last week we hit all the other areas i picked out where we got a week of £300+ days work from the biggies mixed with the sappy greenary houses.thats when i call it a day with the canvassers when the full month is there after 4 months of 3 evenings a week canvassing(roughly give or take).
Throughout the process i got mega amounts of messers but they are to be expected in the canvassing game.
next step i sourced a cleaner to work with me, after training him up i like to try and compact my round to the max so i play my sale/sd game(you have to play it as a game or it gets to tedious searching for sold houses all day long)
i jot down in a book the address of every for sale and sold board in a 3 sectioned table(for sale, sold and moved in). I wont bore you with the story on those as is self explanitry i waited for the sold boards to go over the weeks/months of working the round and pounce the new owners with a simple pitchof,"hi i have noticed you have just moved in, im the local window cleaner around here and im guessing you would like to be put on the books". and 9times out of 10 they do. I have been doing that since may untill present and have over 1000 addresses in my book that im waiting on pouncing on when the sold boards go down. the list grows and grows each week which is getting to be a headache as is a job on its own now looking for them all through the week and pouncing them on a sunday however its gaining me an extra 20-30 new customers a month from just playing a waiting and observing game.
In the new year thats where the leaflets will come in which im a newbie to so havnt a clue how that will go but from lee's description of it it hopefully will be a success. i will leaflet all the roads i already clean in and hopefully hit another 50 customers from 50000 leaflets. The target is to have £300-350 a day of compact work from this round and At the mo those 50 customers i hopefully get from leaflets will be that icing on the cake and target complete. That is where ill source another worker to help clean the round and get on with starting to build round 3.

are you still canvassing in the winter months, like right now, WOULD YOU?

[roundbuilder]

The only canvassing i do now is my sw1 london work and to replace any dropout customers here and there.

Canvassing in the dark winter nights is easier to get results than summer as you dont waste your time knocking on houses where you can see they are clearly not home. Also all the chancer window cleaners or the window cleaners who arnt reliable over winter months there customers will want a better reliable service. Last year i canvassed with all the snow and picked up massive amounts of new custom in the days where everyone was home so yes canvassing winter is defo worthwhile im you can man the cold.

[Lee Pryor]

I see that knowone that has disagreed with me has answered my last post on here

[davids3511]

return on investment. found it.  

I don't agree it's easy to get canvassers. I have advertised time and again and offered good money, not just commission based, and not a single peson was interested.

put an add on gumtree stateing easy canvassing job available in the window cleaning market. x 2 vacancies gaining customers averaging 5 leads an hour at x amount per lead.
i must be lucky then as i always find them either from working, down the pub, customers unemployed sons etc. just put the word out your looking for canvassers. even tell your staff that they need to do it with you to maintain there work load. better still go out on your own and canvass yourself.

http://www.gumtree.com/p/jobs/door-to-door-canvasser-required-for-successful-window-cleaning-company/1004578005

1 applicant from that who could barely speak english. I'm not having a pop Mick, I want to understand how to get good canvassers as that's part of my moving forward plan but nobody seems to want to do it. I think that advery is offering a reasonable wage and flexability.

[roundbuilder]

canvassing or leafletting, would someone please explain to why why spending £20k and getting a return increased turnover of 80K a year plus £14k of exras on top of that turnover is a bad return within a 12 month period.

It doesnt matter how much money you spend on what if you get the reurn, that is the important bit. Why does everyone keep missing that poin? I just dont get it?

The only reason I was able to spend that much on that is because ive spent years and lots of money trying and testing my methods to a point where I have the experience and confidence to spend that and know I will get the return.

If you went to any business investor like dragons den and proved a 4 fold return on investment or better within 12 months they would take your hand off.

No because what you said makes perfect sence and i will be using your advice to better myself I couldnt agree more that 80k for a 20k investment is pucka. I just challanged you to why you thought canvassing didnt come close to leafletting. You surely must agree that canvassing would make a massivly more compact business over soley leafletting covering a more dense area, you are making out estras are the be all and end all with leaflets which they arnt anybody can pursue extras to there business.
Also you can chase the extras from any angle you work not just through a leaflet. Like i said i give all signed up customes a welcome letter explaining all which brings in loads of extras however i do prefere repeat monthly compact work over relying on IF a customer wants extras doing.

[roundbuilder]

return on investment. found it.  

I don't agree it's easy to get canvassers. I have advertised time and again and offered good money, not just commission based, and not a single peson was interested.

put an add on gumtree stateing easy canvassing job available in the window cleaning market. x 2 vacancies gaining customers averaging 5 leads an hour at x amount per lead.
i must be lucky then as i always find them either from working, down the pub, customers unemployed sons etc. just put the word out your looking for canvassers. even tell your staff that they need to do it with you to maintain there work load. better still go out on your own and canvass yourself.

http://www.gumtree.com/p/jobs/door-to-door-canvasser-required-for-successful-window-cleaning-company/1004578005

1 applicant from that who could barely speak english. I'm not having a pop Mick, I want to understand how to get good canvassers as that's part of my moving forward plan but nobody seems to want to do it. I think that advery is offering a reasonable wage and flexability.

As stupid as it sounds but you want to use youngsters or blokes who do it for beer money even foreinors. I have had asian black, polish all sorts they still bring in the work. Dont expect to get a top salesman to work for you knocking on doors coz it will never happen. A customer is a customer at the end of the day, if a trampy looking bloke can still pull 6 customers an eve in then happy days.

[telfordwindowclnr]

I see that knowone that has disagreed with me has answered my last post on here

I don't disagree, I'm just very surprised.  But as I said before, fair play to ya. It is a good return, but I'm sure Peter jones would try to get you to canvass and get 5 times your return!   

[Richard iSparkle]

I see that knowone that has disagreed with me has answered my last post on here

I don't disagree, I'm just very surprised.  But as I said before, fair play to ya. It is a good return, but I'm sure Peter jones would try to get you to canvass and get 5 times your return!   

The best things for me about leafleting are

1.  You don't have to deal with canvassers (it is far less hassle)
2.  You have a lot more control over what is said to your customers when they sign up
3.  You have a lot more control over prices
4.  It is a lot easier to do on a large scale than canvassing

for these reasons it suits the goals for my business much more.

a point that has been a little undersold on the extras advertised on leaflets is that you are advertising all your services to all houses leafleted.

if you are sending your new clients a letter with services on them, you are only advertising to this much smaller (albeit more targeted) group of potential customers

[roundbuilder]

I see that knowone that has disagreed with me has answered my last post on here

I don't disagree, I'm just very surprised.  But as I said before, fair play to ya. It is a good return, but I'm sure Peter jones would try to get you to canvass and get 5 times your return!   

The best things for me about leafleting are

1.  You don't have to deal with canvassers (it is far less hassle)
2.  You have a lot more control over what is said to your customers when they sign up
3.  You have a lot more control over prices
4.  It is a lot easier to do on a large scale than canvassing

for these reasons it suits the goals for my business much more.

a point that has been a little undersold on the extras advertised on leaflets is that you are advertising all your services to all houses leafleted.

if you are sending your new clients a letter with services on them, you are only advertising to this much smaller (albeit more targeted) group of potential customers

I dont see where you are getting with hassle from canvassers. They are only hassle if you dont train them right. I never have serious issues of complaints and many can back me up on that.
I ring most of the canvassed customers to sort any queerys they may have and to make sure they want regular. As for control over prices how te hell do you get better control from a call centre pricing up??? A canvasser would price exactly how i would want which is the case.
True about the extras i get where your comeing from but for me a better business would be repeat work from regular customers so that 80k lee talks about at the end of the year is every year and not just from the result of extras from a leaflet drop that year id see it as grief going out my way to do a gutter clean or soffit clean when id have a full to the brim day of regular domestic straight forward window cleaning.

Sorry to you and lee if im coming accross argumentative as i dont mean to come accross that way but window cleaning for me has always been the 3 c's
Canvass-clean-collect. As straight forward as that. Repeat that process 1000+ times and you will have a great business it is that simple. I dont know why people make ojt its anything else but that.

[DG Cleaning]

This has been a good post much better than all the arguing going off on here of late.
Looks to me that both leafleting and canvassing are exellent ways to build up a business. More than one way to skin a cat 

[niceandclean]

Lee. How many vans do you have out per day? How many staff per van?

[Carl@Cwc]

This has been a good post much better than all the arguing going off on here of late.
Looks to me that both leafleting and canvassing are exellent ways to build up a business. More than one way to skin a cat 

i think thats because all the major input bar mine has come from bigger companies with vast experience.
i love these type of threads aswell m8

[Tony Edwards]

Lee & Mick

I can see  both view points. Lee I think you have some great advice and agree with what you say.I have only been going 6 months and in that time I have canvassed most evenings in the summer and every saturday now the evenings are dark.

I wish I had the money to have a massive leaflet drop like you,but I simply dont have the funds. Every penny I earn goes to new leaflets and equipment etc.
I target the top end properties £1m-6M. In my experience these guys do not respond to leaflets flyers etc. I spent a lot of money having high quality flyers done and then dropped them myself. The response was rubbish. However when I call back on the same houses, dressed smart,all the banter, I pick up lots of regular and one offs. These people all ways say to me " that we never respond to leaflets". I manage to convert 75-80% of these customers simply because they can see " a face not a leaflet ". I never undercut or nick other guys work and so far have had only a couple of messers.

Mick is right canvassing really does work and TBH I enjoy it as I can personally suse the customer and use the opportunity to target additional work. I think is horses for courses and that you are both right. I have also picked up some amazing referrals, an £100 x 6 weekly and a £80 x 6 weekly just this week because I was told to go to a neighbour and ask for them personally.

You will not get that with leaflets drops in the market that I target. Having said that when I have additional funds I will leaflet drop the lower end of the market as one of my boys wants to come and work for me.

[Lee Pryor]

Lee. How many vans do you have out per day? How many staff per van?

2 and 2

getting another van it the new year/summer depending on growth. that will have 1 man since you make more money that way rather than with 2 men per van, so we will have a bit of both.

[Rogue Trader]

Have you taken another person on in the last week Lee? cos as you know I was told just last week by one of your men that you had 2 vans , one with 2 men and 1 with 1 man. I would like to know how you can turnover £25k (average £22k) per month with only 3 men (2 of those men in the same van) , that is a phenominal turnover per man of in excess of £90k per annum per man by my crude estimations , i must be doing something wrong.

[Slash]

Hi Lee,
On your leaflet you have four vans and why all the poles when you only have four staff or am I missing something

[Window Washers]

Hi Lee,
On your leaflet you have four vans and why all the poles when you only have four staff or am I missing something

photoshop is a great tool

4 staff and lee is 5 (if Lee has 4 i dont have a clue) different size poles for different jobs not really that hard to work out, just looks alot all lined up.
I bet Alex was rubbing his hands that day.

[Dani J]

Hi Lee,
On your leaflet you have four vans and why all the poles when you only have four staff or am I missing something

photoshop is a great tool

4 staff and lee is 5 (if Lee has 4 i dont have a clue) different size poles for different jobs not really that hard to work out, just looks alot all lined up.
I bet Alex was rubbing his hands that day.

I bet Alex was rubbing his hands that day.