[Lee Pryor]

I really think the big companies have missed a trick here.

we are currently installing hot wash into our vans (gas) and like everything else I do I have spent months obsessing over learning as much as I can. Ive been and tried just about everything regarding this subject in the last few months.

Here is what I concluded.

Diesels are a total waste of money. they cost thousands to buy, run on diesel which is very expensive. They take time to get hot and then dont actualy get that hot. Cost loads if they go wrong and so on

Gas options cost next to nothing, in fact the same as an average pole. Ive paid £98 for the heater, £50 for the flue kit, and £30 for 19kg propane bottle. Gas gets hot faster, gets hotter, is a fraction to buy and run and if it goes wrong I will simply buy another just as you would a pole that wore out.

ok many have a 20 min timer as do ours but you can get them without it. So unless im missing something why would you pay £3000 when you could pay less than £200 for something that in fact out performs diesel in every way?

[Richard iSparkle]

I really think the big companies have missed a trick here.

we are currently installing hot wash into our vans (gas) and like everything else I do I have spent months obsessing over learning as much as I can. Ive been and tried just about everything regarding this subject in the last few months.

Here is what I concluded.

Diesels are a total waste of money. they cost thousands to buy, run on diesel which is very expensive. They take time to get hot and then dont actualy get that hot. Cost loads if they go wrong and so on

Gas options cost next to nothing, in fact the same as an average pole. Ive paid £98 for the heater, £50 for the flue kit, and £30 for 19kg propane bottle. Gas gets hot faster, gets hotter, is a fraction to buy and run and if it goes wrong I will simply buy another just as you would a pole that wore out.

ok many have a 20 min timer as do ours but you can get them without it. So unless im missing something why would you pay £3000 when you could pay less than £200 for something that in fact out performs diesel in every way?

concept 2O use LPG too.

the only hassle i find is needing to re fuel it weekly

[Lee Pryor]

Yes they do and I think its a very good system. I also think they charge to much for it. hey its costing you alot less to run that than a diesel

[sunshine windows]

I don't think they have missed a trick. I think diesel installs are the trick.

I wish I'd have gone gas now as my webasto pf heater cost over 2k and is dead within 4 hours each day. Already replaced 2 batteries in as many years and I barely use it.

I think the trick is, the big companies are raking it in from these hot installs.

[Richard iSparkle]

Yes they do and I think its a very good system. I also think they charge to much for it. hey its costing you alot less to run that than a diesel

do you know how much LPG youll carry Lee, and how long it'll last?

[Lee Pryor]

I don't think they have missed a trick. I think diesel installs are the trick.

I wish I'd have gone gas now as my webasto pf heater cost over 2k and is dead within 4 hours each day. Already replaced 2 batteries in as many years and I barely use it.

I think the trick is, the big companies are raking it in from these hot installs.

And there we have it.

Im not one for looking for the cheapest option with things rather value for money. I dont mind paying more if it beneffits to do so. My vans have crash tested systems in and I didnt mind paying more for this.

But I think the whole hot water thing is a total rip off I really do. I tried a thermopure and it took ages to get warm and was then only luke warm??? I dont clean myself anymore but lets say im doing a neck breaking fascia and soffit clean then I want the water piping hot dont you?

[niceandclean]

I looked at installing gas, but A Plan could not find anyone who would insure the van, so went with another Webasto. Have a look round webasto dealers in your area, and get a price from them to supply and fit. There was a guy i found on google, a sole trader, who traveled around the south supplying and installing webasto and eberspacher.

[Lee Pryor]

Yes they do and I think its a very good system. I also think they charge to much for it. hey its costing you alot less to run that than a diesel

do you know how much LPG youll carry Lee, and how long it'll last?

A good question.

My vans will have the biggest we can which is 19kg propane. we will install valves that tell us the gas level and I have done a deal with the local supplier for free delivery to my unit of new bottles. So when we see they are running out its one call and the same day delivered for a swap over.

I would say my reaserch tells me that if we use hot on every house which we will a bottle will last 3 weeks, maybe 4. £30 a refil. I dont think thats to bad. Those that can refil themselves at a petrol station will pay even less.

[keyser soze]

totally agree lee. gas all the way

[Window Washers]

Do the ones that use gas do you have this on your insurance, have stickers on outside of van and fire extinguishers. ?

If so who do you use for insurance and where have you found the best place for the extinguishers and stickers ?

Cheers

[rah]

Hi Lee,

Could you let me know where you sourced you heater etc?

Rob

[JackieW]

''Do the ones that use gas do you have this on your insurance''

I was in contact with  a guy that was selling window cleaning vans converted with a gas heater, with a flue, and he admitted it would be a problem getting the van insured.

[Dave Willis]

Would be a problem or could be a problem? My broker wasn't bothered - their main concern was the total weight. Motorhomes carry gas and are generally very cheap to insure. Builders and plumbers carry it and many cars are powered by it. I wonder which company concept 2o recommend?

[concept]

Insurance?

1) It is a legal requirement to have all mobile catering vehicles and trailers  that have gas equipment installed, inspected by a Gas Safe registered engineer at least every 12 months.

2) Unless made before 1996 all gas equipment must be of a proprietary manufacture and be CE marked,  which means that it has been tested by an approved test house, and conforms to a European standard.

To have none CE equipment installed  means that the Gas Safe Engineer should not issue a certificate.  The fact is that some Gas Safe engineers are issuing certificates to trailers that have none CE marked equipment for whatever reason.


This has now come to the attention of both Gas safe and the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) who  are taking action against these engineers.


Even more worrying is that this could easily render the caterers insurance void  as most policies have a clause in them to say that the insured must be operating within the law to be covered under the policy

3) It is illegal to remove or replace any piece of gas equipment, the only exception to this is if the equipment has been fitted with ‘snap connector’ type hoses unless you are a Gas Safe registered engineer

4) It is illegal to service a piece of Gas equipment unless you are a Gas Safe registered engineer

( see below)

A Gas Safe engineer has to have additional qualifications to work on LPG catering equipment so make sure that  the engineer working in your business is suitably qualified.


Ok, a quick cut and paste that is applicable to another trade, food wagons.

I believe they also require a separate cabinet made from a certain thickness steel to carry the LPG bottle, which is also separate from the main body of the vehicle, or something similar.

Whilst these DIY kits certainly produce hot water, it's worth noting the risks and legalities involved.

I know insurance companies are strict at the best of times, just try telling them you have a naked flame heater near a ratcheted in gas bottle, I'm sure it won't add to your annual premium. 

[Dave Willis]

Catering vehicle?

[Dave Willis]

Interesting.

http://www.healthandsafetytips.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=19187

[concept]

Catering vehicle?

It relates to LPG installations. Which is relevant to these systems.

[dd]

I don't think they have missed a trick. I think diesel installs are the trick.

I wish I'd have gone gas now as my webasto pf heater cost over 2k and is dead within 4 hours each day. Already replaced 2 batteries in as many years and I barely use it.

I think the trick is, the big companies are raking it in from these hot installs.

Totally agree. Really disappointed with my PF diesel heater. Big waste of money IMO. Ironic thing is I bought it because a few people on this forum raved about it.

Believe I was misled by PF because I specifically asked if the batteries would be up to the job and they really are not.

[dazmond]

i think ill stick to my diy cold system with pumpbox,less hassle,no extra insurances etc,etc.

ive had no problems working with a cold system in 2 and a half years wfp.

it seems to me that you cant get proper insurance if you have gas bottles in the van and the diesel systems are way expensive to buy and run!!


.........im OUT!!!


dazmond

[niceandclean]

I don't think they have missed a trick. I think diesel installs are the trick.

I wish I'd have gone gas now as my webasto pf heater cost over 2k and is dead within 4 hours each day. Already replaced 2 batteries in as many years and I barely use it.

I think the trick is, the big companies are raking it in from these hot installs.

Totally agree. Really disappointed with my PF diesel heater. Big waste of money IMO. Ironic thing is I bought it because a few people on this forum raved about it.

Believe I was misled by PF because I specifically asked if the batteries would be up to the job and they really are not.

You need a decent auto charger, i have no probs with ours. I run two batteries crossed over. With regards to the heat, can you not adjust the temp on the PF set ups?