[Warren Aldridge]

Common sense

If I removed more soils with my vacuum I'd be changing the bag a hell of a lot more.

If all I got was a little brown bag of dust from a day of truckmount extraction I'd sell it a just LM

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

No you dont change the bag alot more because it isn't full of water 

[Warren Aldridge]

Well I've got all the systems

BS36
Standard Rotary and encap products
Orbital Rotary
Triple Vac Portable
Truckmount

And I LIKE TO do it that way because it works best.... as opposed to HAVE TO doing it a particular way.

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

and on that subject put a ashtray in 5 litres of water it'll turn black how much is dirt and how much is water ?

[Warren Aldridge]

Put a dirty pad in a bucket of water and it will turn black too...

Encapping is my weapon of choice for commercial but it has its limits, there's no sales patter or other that can refute that

[*Hector*]

Put a dirty pad in a bucket of water and it will turn black too...

Encapping is my weapon of choice for commercial but it has its limits, there's no sales patter or other that can refute that

you forgot to add IMO Warren.....   

[Simon Gerrard]

I agree with that, up to a point, provided you can get it clean with a padding system, sometimes, especially on a first clean where the carpet is filthy, you have no other choice than to hwse it and then pad it from there on provided they don't leave it too long.

Simon

I think I'll retract that.
Surely you deal with every job on its merits and choose the system / technique that is going to produce the best possible result given the condition of the carpet, provided of course that you have a choice of equipment in the first place. That to me is far more sensible than a simple one size fits all approach saying, LM for man made commercials and HWSE for wool. There have been countless commercial low profile jobs that we've started with LM but the result hasn't been satifactory and ended up with the TM and RX and got an outstanding result. (we don't price carpet cleaning on a particular system, just on getting the bloody thing clean by wahtever means)
We've just cleaned 1200 sqm of very dirty, dusty and old brown carpet tiles this weekend. After having done a number of test patches with different methods over a few weeks found that Encap produced the best visual result. The carpet was in effect un-cleanable with any other method. Had we not had the means to Encap we wouldn't have got that very lucrative job, but does that mean that tomorrow we'll be encapping everything, not a chance, but if encap was all I had I'd have no other choice and I'd been using the wrong system and selling my customers short, something I will never do for the sake of a few litres of LPG.

Simon

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

I agree with that, up to a point, provided you can get it clean with a padding system, sometimes, especially on a first clean where the carpet is filthy, you have no other choice than to hwse it and then pad it from there on provided they don't leave it too long.

Simon

I think I'll retract that.
Surely you deal with every job on its merits and choose the system / technique that is going to produce the best possible result given the condition of the carpet, provided of course that you have a choice of equipment in the first place. That to me is far more sensible than a simple one size fits all approach saying, LM for man made commercials and HWSE for wool. There have been countless commercial low profile jobs that we've started with LM but the result hasn't been satifactory and ended up with the TM and RX and got an outstanding result. (we don't price carpet cleaning on a particular system, just on getting the bloody thing clean by wahtever means)
We've just cleaned 1200 sqm of very dirty, dusty and old brown carpet tiles this weekend. After having done a number of test patches with different methods over a few weeks found that Encap produced the best visual result. The carpet was in effect un-cleanable with any other method. Had we not had the means to Encap we wouldn't have got that very lucrative job, but does that mean that tomorrow we'll be encapping everything, not a chance, but if encap was all I had I'd have no other choice and I'd been using the wrong system and selling my customers short, something I will never do for the sake of a few litres of LPG.

Simon

And using lm encap got the carpet clean and job done or did you tell them just looks clean Thankyou.

[Jamie Pearson]

By the way does HWE stand for Hot water Encap when using Chempsec liquid high heat?
 

Yes

[Jamie Pearson]

If we are faced with this scenario on a synthetic carpet we use Chemspec Enzyme Carpet Shampoo boosted with Energizer and Traffic Lane Cleaner through a Cimex with a quick pad off to finish. Obviously if this was a wool carpet this wouldn't be the preferred method. Perhaps as the cleaning phase but we would then rinse out the enzymes. On synthetics a good scrub and pad with these products is all that's required.

Hang on a second, you dissolve the grease with enzyme carpet shampoo and energiser which dissolves the grease then use a pad to spread it all over the carpet again? Granted some of it will be absorbed into the pad, but come on, IMO  that is stretching credibility to breaking point. an rx20 attached to a TM, or wand and portable will flush the dissolved grease out of the carpet.

Simon

Almost. We break down the grease with the traffic lane cleaner, the oxidiser helps with the proteins and the enzymes to digest it.

Anything residual is crystallised.

The bonnets are merely to dry it off a little.  

The reality is re-soiling will occur in the same time regardless of how clean we get it due to the nature of the business and usually maintenance of the kitchen floors being poor and oils getting tracked out.

There is a degree of perception in all of this however.

To some a restaurant job a 40-100m2 Indian/Chinese with Belgian Wilton on the high street.

To me it's 1000m2 of carpet tiles in a sealed building with no way to turn the air con on.

[John Geurkink]

This thread totally reminds me of postings back in the 90's over here on this side the pond.

I expect HWE to be the most used there, I expect HWE guys to be passionate, however, I also know they have little understanding of where LM has gone to in recent years.

No one is saying HWE is not good, good grief but I will tell ya this, it isn't the KING many think it is, and in many of the cases just described in the last couple pages, the misconception of LM are amazing.

But one thing is for sure, it sure got a lot of postings in a  short time...LOL

If you all don't mind, I would sure love to debate this a LOT more.

[Peter Sweeney]

just a thought but how many carpet manufacturers recommend lm/bonnet cleaning on their carpets? 0

how many recommend hwe? Most of them, but hey, what would they know

Can't deny that Dave L is holding back money he owes me until I posted this lol

[Jamie Pearson]

just a thought but how many carpet manufacturers recommend lm/bonnet cleaning on their carpets? 0

Gaskells used to recommend Dry Fusion in the late 90s.

Not sure if that is still the case.

Interface now endorse "anything from the range" by Prochem or Chemspec

These are both commercial carpet manufacturers.

[Peter Sweeney]

Surprised by interface, they were very aggressive with their warranties re using rotaries for a long time. What about shaw industries?

[robert meldrum]

Good morning madam and thanks for calling,

We have a modern cleaning system which leaves your carpets almost dry and back in use immediately. We don't have to leave doors open, we don't have to trail large hoses through your home, we don't need to spray litres of water on your carpets, we won't upset your neighbours with loud machinery, we will take less than half the time our water extraction method takes, as we clean the products we use will deodorise and protect your carpet from any spills you might have, leaving it with a gentle and subtle aroma.

Your carpets will look and feel and smell as good any other cleaning method, possibly better.

We still have our wet system machines, but for the reasons I just mentioned I'd recommend our new method ..............

Which will she choose ??

[Mike Halliday]

Good morning madam and thanks for calling,

We have a modern cleaning system which leaves your carpets almost dry and back in use immediately. We don't have to leave doors open, we don't have to trail large hoses through your home, we don't need to spray litres of water on your carpets, we won't upset your neighbours with loud machinery, we will take less than half the time our water extraction method takes, as we clean the products we use will deodorise and protect your carpet from any spills you might have, leaving it with a gentle and subtle aroma.

Your carpets will look and feel and smell as good any other cleaning method, possibly better.

But your carpet won't actually be clean, most of the dirt will still be there....it will only look clean

We still have our wet system machines, but for the reasons I just mentioned I'd recommend our new method ..............

Which will she choose ??

Now you've told her the truth which will she chose??

[*Hector*]

but your system does not remove all the dirt either Mike... so would you say that ??

[Simon Gerrard]

Spot on, Mr Halliday  
I love these debates with the fringe elements, it's fascinating how they believe with such cult fervour that LM methods actually clean carpets, when we all know that they don't, I only have to empty my TM recovery tank to be reminded of that, especially when you think how could all that dirt and sludge could be removed with a pad, or brush. There's only one place dirt, that's down a drain.

Simon

[Mike Halliday]

Hector I would, I often explain the downside to HWE I find it stop complaints

I tell them I will do my best to get out as much dirt as possible,

I have a sprayborg, a rotory, an orbital challenger/lowboy, Host and VS dry foam machines, I would love to be able to use these machine as my only system and in the past have tried but they do nt give the quality of clean I want,  sometimes they did but not all the time

On domestics HWE  constantly  removes more dirt than L/M if it didn't I wouldn't use it

[Peter Sweeney]

Interface stipulate that "bonnet or similar " systems should not be used.  This is on their needle point carpet tiles and Super Floor S I think.  It does say however that HWE is to be used.