[Simon Gerrard]

VAC VAC VAC most loose soils Recovered, Prespray attack the rest of soils i'e stains etc the pad chemical and bonnet process all work together to pick up soils Simple and as hector said clean pad turns dirty because it pick up the dirt and the chemical stops the dirt reattaching itself which is why pads are designed to attract and pick up the dirt you don't see carpets made from microfibre do you.

Erm, no, it picks up some, but by no means all of the soil and very much less than a hwse system would, to believe anything is simply delusional. The trouble with LM is that it is being put to uses it wasn't designed for. As a low moisture maintenance system it is excellent,  but as an out and out cleaning system is something a professional carpet cleaner would turn to only when the situation calls for it, which is why most carpet cleaners use other, far more effective systems the majority of the time.

Simon

[Mike Halliday]

let me try it in words of few syllables so that you might just understand...

dirt in carpet, released by chemicals and agitation....

clean bonnet on buffer...

buffer goes round and round on carpet...

buffer stops

bonnet has dirt on it that it did not have before being in contact with carpet..

dirt from carpet is now on bonnett

QED

Thanks for keeping it simple. just one point, how does it  remove the dirt from the part of the carpet fibre  that the bonnet doesn't touch?

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

Well i would think the Vac process sucks soils up and to the surface or are you saying soils won't come to the surface unless water is present ?

[Carpet Dawg]

Well i would think the Vac process sucks soils up and to the surface or are you saying soils won't come to the surface unless water is present ?

Have you ever used the hwe system to clean a carpet?

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

No and i don't intend too iv'e done pubs with Blacktop everywere using DF and yes when i finished no blacktop and nice clean carpets 

[Carpet Dawg]

How do you deal with odours if you only use LM?

Or urine, poo, blood, vomit etc?

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

Odours, Chem has built in deoderiser and if i came across the rest i would get my small extraction machine for the area then LM after and Blood would be Cold Water rinse then LM.

[Carpet Dawg]

why bring two cleaning systems in to the house? seems like more hassle to me.

Deoderisers will just mask the bad odours they will re-occour if not fully extracted from the carpet.

[*Hector*]

colloidals remove the odours Tony..

Mike  the same way that your system cleans the bits it misses.

[Carpet Dawg]

I use colloidals too.

I use Nemsis odour neutrilser, but I find that extracting the crap out of the carpet first, before applying the colloidal works better. Having said that, its the only way I have used Nemsis but thats what it says to do on the back of the bottle 

[Jamie Pearson]

The restaurant we did was so greasy that the grease wasn't just on the surface, but  all the way through the pile in the traffic lanes, how would / could encap deal with that?
Don't get me wrong, I like encap in certain situations, but I'm a bit too fond of putting the dirt where is belongs, down the drain to use it across the board when people are paying good money to have their carpet 'cleaned.'

If we are faced with this scenario on a synthetic carpet we use Chemspec Enzyme Carpet Shampoo boosted with Energizer and Traffic Lane Cleaner through a Cimex with a quick pad off to finish. Obviously if this was a wool carpet this wouldn't be the preferred method. Perhaps as the cleaning phase but we would then rinse out the enzymes. On synthetics a good scrub and pad with these products is all that's required.

I am fortunate enough to own (or have owned and moved on from) every system available and as stated previously agree that the system that suits that particular job, budget and requiment should be used.

As I operate exclusively in the commercial sector (office buildings) nobody will pay the money for full cleaning when presented with the option. Most of the contracts we do already use SEBO BS36 vacs (or equiv),  partly down to us and the carpet manufacturers specifying them, so post vac removal of polymer and in some cases Pre-vac isn't required as they prefer to do those stages in house to further reduce cost.

In every situation I have used HWE on heavily soiled office carpet tiles we have always returned and pad/Encap cleaned the following day to get the Improvement in appearance we desire. This is even with post padding on the first visit. We actually now feel that forcing the carpet to wick back results in more complete soil removal. We tend nowadays to only HWE as the first clean in a maintenance program to "empty out" the carpet prior to continuing with pad Encap (we use an encapsulating rinse in our extractors also). I have sites that haven't required a further extraction clean in 15 years with quarterly visits and good in house vacuuming.

Although we use LM cleaning more than 95% of the time it wouldn't be my first choice for domestic carpets however we have it should there be a need for it. We also have dry compound but that hasn't been used in over 2 years now.

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

why bring two cleaning systems in to the house? seems like more hassle to me.

Deoderisers will just mask the bad odours they will re-occour if not fully extracted from the carpet.

I only bring two machines in if needed very rarely and bad odours are neutrilised not masked and smells can be caused by bacteria so kill the bacteria kill the smell in the 3 years iv'e used DF never had a call back saying my carpet still smells  

[Simon Gerrard]

If we are faced with this scenario on a synthetic carpet we use Chemspec Enzyme Carpet Shampoo boosted with Energizer and Traffic Lane Cleaner through a Cimex with a quick pad off to finish. Obviously if this was a wool carpet this wouldn't be the preferred method. Perhaps as the cleaning phase but we would then rinse out the enzymes. On synthetics a good scrub and pad with these products is all that's required.

Hang on a second, you dissolve the grease with enzyme carpet shampoo and energiser which dissolves the grease then use a pad to spread it all over the carpet again? Granted some of it will be absorbed into the pad, but come on, IMO  that is stretching credibility to breaking point. an rx20 attached to a TM, or wand and portable will flush the dissolved grease out of the carpet.

Simon

[Warren Aldridge]

I'm with Jamie. I've done a few LM commercial jobs when i prefer to quickly pre HWE rather than pre dry vac and encap. It just felt right to do.

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

Although we use LM cleaning more than 95% of the time it wouldn't be my first choice for domestic carpets however we have it should there be a need for it. We also have dry compound but that hasn't been used in over 2 years now.

Jamie all iv'e had is DF so 1st and only choice and 90% my jobs are domestic never had a problem mate.

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

I'm with Jamie. I've done a few LM commercial jobs when i prefer to quickly pre HWE rather than pre dry vac and encap. It just felt right to do.

So what your saying is you don't prevac i thought no matter what cleaning equipment you use prevac is a must 

[Warren Aldridge]

The first time I used HWE as a preclean prior to Encap was in a school. I was pushing around a BS36 and I had a feeling I was wasting my time. Then setup HWE and used a low PSI and quickly went over. The flushing nature removed far more soils.

After that I encapped it and it was perfect.

I did pre vac it.... prevac with water

[Nigel_W]

The restaurant we did was so greasy that the grease wasn't just on the surface, but  all the way through the pile in the traffic lanes, how would / could encap deal with that?
Don't get me wrong, I like encap in certain situations, but I'm a bit too fond of putting the dirt where is belongs, down the drain to use it across the board when people are paying good money to have their carpet 'cleaned.'

If we are faced with this scenario on a synthetic carpet we use Chemspec Enzyme Carpet Shampoo boosted with Energizer and Traffic Lane Cleaner through a Cimex with a quick pad off to finish. Obviously if this was a wool carpet this wouldn't be the preferred method. Perhaps as the cleaning phase but we would then rinse out the enzymes. On synthetics a good scrub and pad with these products is all that's required.

I am fortunate enough to own (or have owned and moved on from) every system available and as stated previously agree that the system that suits that particular job, budget and requiment should be used.

As I operate exclusively in the commercial sector (office buildings) nobody will pay the money for full cleaning when presented with the option. Most of the contracts we do already use SEBO BS36 vacs (or equiv),  partly down to us and the carpet manufacturers specifying them, so post vac removal of polymer and in some cases Pre-vac isn't required as they prefer to do those stages in house to further reduce cost.

In every situation I have used HWE on heavily soiled office carpet tiles we have always returned and pad/Encap cleaned the following day to get the Improvement in appearance we desire. This is even with post padding on the first visit. We actually now feel that forcing the carpet to wick back results in more complete soil removal. We tend nowadays to only HWE as the first clean in a maintenance program to "empty out" the carpet prior to continuing with pad Encap (we use an encapsulating rinse in our extractors also). I have sites that haven't required a further extraction clean in 15 years with quarterly visits and good in house vacuuming.

Although we use LM cleaning more than 95% of the time it wouldn't be my first choice for domestic carpets however we have it should there be a need for it. We also have dry compound but that hasn't been used in over 2 years now.

Ahh Jamie - the voice of reason and common sense. I 100% agree with what you say. Low moisture cleaning for low profile man made commercials and HWE for residentials ( especially wool). There will always be some exceptions to this but in the main it is how I see it in this country.

By the way does HWE stand for Hot water Encap when using Chempsec liquid high heat?


Nigel
 

[Simon Gerrard]

I agree with that, up to a point, provided you can get it clean with a padding system, sometimes, especially on a first clean where the carpet is filthy, you have no other choice than to hwse it and then pad it from there on provided they don't leave it too long.

Simon

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

The first time I used HWE as a preclean prior to Encap was in a school. I was pushing around a BS36 and I had a feeling I was wasting my time. Then setup HWE and used a low PSI and quickly went over. The flushing nature removed far more soils.

After that I encapped it and it was perfect.

I did pre vac it.... prevac with water

Explain how you removed far more soils did you weigh the hoover bag or look at colour of water you don't know mate.