Interested In Advertising? | Contact Us Here
Warning!

 

Welcome to Clean It Up; the UK`s largest cleaning forum with over 34,000 members

 

Please login or register to post and reply to topics.      

 

Forgot your password? Click here

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2012, 09:10:17 am »
I know all about grease, and just because you have not experienced cleaning it with encap is NO reason to not accept anyone else NOT DOING IT ON A REGULAR basis. I understand you have nothing like the Trinity machines in the UK, so you won't see (other than in other cleaners videos) exactly what I am talking about until someone there starts using them.

So when you've got a greasy restaurant carpet where the pile is full of grease, where does the grease go when you encap it?
I assume because of the nature of grease you can't encapsulate it, so you can't vac it out the next day?
You guy's have agot a completely different cleaning culture in the States, where carpet cleaning is done on a far more regular basis and not every few years, or every blue moon as it is over here.

Mossy,
It would be good to get your Orbot on a restaurant carpet and put Encap to the test on grease?

Simon

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2012, 10:08:03 am »


A professional knows no one tool will do all jobs as well or as effectively, including a TM. So when someone says that about a product you immediately discount any claims, which is a shame.

Having said that, the sad truth is in the UK there are plenty of padders and franchise dry systems and the bar is set very low to impress. I've vacuumed  a few carpets with a Kirby and had customers saying it looks like new.  ;D
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

John Geurkink

  • Posts: 55
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2012, 05:13:21 pm »
I wasn't planning on getting involved with the HWE/LM cleaning debate, as I don't have enough experience of LM yet. But I'd be interested in the LM guys comments on this video, title 'How carpet cleaning should be'


Loved the sad music, as it appears to be celebrating the death of a poor carpet...LOL But the Drimaster did a good job of restoring the carpet, a tool that works well as OTHERS do.

Ive just got the Hbot which is a similar machine and i am getting very impressed with the results .
John have you seen the hbot and is there much difference with it compared to the Trinity?


If you all are truly interested in learning about OP, I will be happy to teach you about what it is, where we have come from and where we are going.  It has been a LONG trip, I started with my father in 1973. I at this point have used OP longer than anyone  in the US. We (dad and I) built the CCS BLue which was the first commercial OP. We used that ole blue for 28 years.

Then after all those years we built the Conqueror series, we added 50% more orbit to the mix, at that time Hruby, who was our customer and who later built the Orbot had bought his company from my cousin, who had bought it years before from my uncle Marv Obbink. Hruby first made an exact copy of our ole blue, later they changed and modified to come out with the Orbot. Challenger also made an OP, Kirk Jenkins had worked for me on building machines. so he then came out with his version, Clark Lancaster also built op, but he built square ones at the time. Later Clark, Challenger and Orbot all changed their orbit to match the Conquerors.

If you watch this video "The History of OP"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bw3zZEQsk&feature=plcp that will give you a  background of where we came from over the years and you will see, not only did we never shy away from filth, we sought it out to test our method. I traveled the US and parts of Canada showing the method and correcting carpet cleaning problems for cleaners on their home turf.
I know the video is long, but if you want to understand, this will really help you see we are not some part time, halfassed, low standard carpet cleaners and never have been. You have to laugh as the last song on the video is a song a competitor wrote and sang about me, he gives me a hard time, but I get a kick out of it anyways...LOL
Now as to the difference between the Trintiy and an orbot, challenger,or lancaster machines. The Trinity series is a newly patented machine, our lowest orbit (Trinty has three speeds) is faster than all our competitors. The high orbit does a few things we have NEVER done before, It utilizes the properties of encap products that we were not able to utilize before in that is quickly strips the fiber of all soils an stickies, which COULD NOT be done well with the lower orbit machines. I eliminated tip blooming because the orbit pulls the fiber to its full extent before coming back on its orbit. This has given us a quality of clean tha t is superior to what you see in the video above, that is all with the SLOWER orbit machines.
The Trinity machines have also given us speeds of clean we have never seen before, I have a video of cleaning commercial carpet at a rate of making $1125.00 an hour at 15cents a square foot. Here is that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioe4Ykqrb2g&feature=plcp

Use this scenario, if your encapping a whole house there's nowhere to remove any furniture out of the rooms, so your pulling it away from walls and cleaning behind then putting back. If your not going back 24 hrs later to post vac your relying on the customer to a) have a decent enough vac and b) they would need to move all the furniture again to remove all the crystalized crap been left behind by encapping. Just wont happen. We all know that most customers don't even vac behind furniture anyway.


No, don't use that scenario, first off, very limited soils on carpet under furniture, the encap solution has no negative impact on carpet, so they do not only not have to vac under the furniture, it  indeed protects the carpets because it HASN"T be vacuumed out. Encapping does put dirt in little baggies ya know, encap strips the fibers and coats them as to eliminate the soil from reattaching to the fibers. Yes it is there to be vacuumed up, but where there is not usage, vacuuming is not needed nor required.  In the traffic lanes it is readily vacuumed up, all we have done it turn the stickies into particulate soils that removed easily.
Also I don't know where this idea of "they clean more often over there" comes from, many customers do clean once every year or 18 months, but also many DON'T we get the same filth you all do. This is just carpet cleaning guys, and like I said, no knock on any system, just more than one way to skin a cat and skin it well. The comments usually just show fear of the unknown, but also probably (unintentionally) say negative things about what they don't understand.

Here is a video of the Trinity Working http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzoeW6oh4Ew&feature=plcp

rycalshaw

  • Posts: 442
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2012, 05:36:54 pm »
good vids john but they all seem to be commercial low profile carpets , are they as effective on deep pile domestics, do you have any vids..thanks

John Geurkink

  • Posts: 55
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2012, 05:45:48 pm »
I am sure I can find some, several  other Trinity users also have put vids up on YOUTUBE, so I will look for some.

Paul Moss

  • Posts: 2296
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2012, 06:23:09 pm »
John i will comment fully on the vids when i have watched them a few times. I have got to say though in the first vid, alot of the pictures show good clean carpets with an op machine next to them, but clearly there are wand marks in the carpet that have been made using a hwe machine and a wand and not by a rotarty or op machine, which looks a bit fake to me.

John Geurkink

  • Posts: 55
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2012, 11:54:38 pm »
Come on Paul, not one HWE mark in those videos, those are all vacuum  marks, we vacuum immediately after cleaning.
Do you think all Americans scoundrels?

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #87 on: November 25, 2012, 07:23:20 am »
Paul thinks that everyone apart from him....

on second thoughts...


Paul thinks everyone is a scoundrel  ;D
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2012, 07:32:58 am »
Paul's a scouters so everyone is a scoundrel  ;D

Shaun

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2012, 07:35:58 am »
Paul's usually right, tho :o
But you'vre got to take these videos and the claims made by these fringe systems with a pinch of salt because you don't know the circumstances, the type of carpet, soil conditions and how much is waffle, wishful thinking, or fact. Claiming a carpet that is choked with grease can be cleaned with Encap is just a joke. I only wish it were as easy as it was in the video and if it was we'd all be buying them and binning our Titan 875's and RX20's. ;D

Simon

Paul Moss

  • Posts: 2296
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2012, 09:51:26 am »
Ive yet to see a vacuum cleaner make a v wand shape in a carpet like that, you must have special vaccums that also can be used on wet carpet. We have them on the end of 2inch vac pipe  :D

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2012, 09:56:51 am »
If bonnet cleaning was a thorough cleaning system as has been suggested then we would have been given logical proof based on the science of cleaning not subjective comments such as ....

I know someone who has a truckmount and has bought a trinity machine.... so it must work!

 or ....watch this video of a carpet that is been cleaned

these comments are not proof a system works.

If this debate was on HWE Cleaning by now the full process of how the dirt is removed would have been explained, but if all these pages no one has tried to explain how a bonnet removes the dirt from the full length of a fibre right to the base of the pile.

One fallacy that has been put forward is that if the carpet 'looks clean'  the customer is happy, and if  the customers calls us because the carpet 'looks dirty'  all we need to do is remedy that problem, but the appearance is a symptom of the real problem.

If  we went to the doctor with chest pains would we be happy if he just said....  take this pill and you will not feel the pain .....after all he has dealt with the symptom or would we want him to address the cause of the pain, it's the same with carpet cleaning, although the customer calls us because the carpet only 'looks' dirty the don't just want the symptom to be gone they want the cause to be dealt with... They want  actual clean carpets not the appearance of clean carpets
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2012, 10:01:31 am »
Hi Guys

I have one very good customer where they will not allow HWE, past bad experiences and only pad systems.

I use my Dry 60 system, which is basically using the Texatherm(older version) with different chemicals.

The client loves it and the results are impressive but common sense suggests I cannot be removing as much dirt as HWE.

This is the dilemma, I am seriously thinking of buying an oscialllating system and would love to try it on the very greasy carpets at this customer.

Cheers

Doug

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2012, 10:47:53 am »




If  we went to the doctor with chest pains would we be happy if he just said....  take this pill and you will not feel the pain .....after all he has dealt with the symptom or would we want him to address the cause of the pain, it's the same with carpet cleaning, although the customer calls us because the carpet only 'looks' dirty the don't just want the symptom to be gone they want the cause to be dealt with... They want  actual clean carpets not the appearance of clean carpets

that has to be the crappest analogy yet....
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2012, 10:56:54 am »
Of course you will say that,  a typical response from some one who can't give a intelengent  answer to how bonnet cleaning removes dirt, you've has plenty of oppertunuty to explain but obviously you prefer tp ignore any awkward question and just  give flippant answers

Hoe does bonnet cleaning remove dirt? Please please explain
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2012, 11:43:33 am »
As I am unable to give you an intelligent answer Dr Mike perhaps you can work it out yourself.

I find it incredible that you can, all by yourself, decry a perfectly legitimate cleaning system. Whilst comparing a decision to have your carpet cleaned with a visit to the Doctors.....
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2012, 12:06:24 pm »

 Ha Ha  ...   only a few posts by John Geurkink on Cleantalk  and he was calling it a cult and left  ....
 quick to figure that out    ;D
 Some go in and are never seen again  ...   :o

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2012, 12:56:21 pm »
As I am unable to give you an intelligent answer Dr Mike perhaps you can work it out yourself.

I find it incredible that you can, all by yourself, decry a perfectly legitimate cleaning system. Whilst comparing a decision to have your carpet cleaned with a visit to the Doctors.....

Still no explanation and still flippant answers, Don't you think everyone is reading this and thinking why doesn't hector just explain how bonnets clean, the fact that you constantly evoid the question and refuse to explain  speaks volumes 

I await your next flippant and piontless answer, as we all know you cannot give a credible explanation

Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #98 on: November 25, 2012, 01:04:32 pm »
let me try it in words of few syllables so that you might just understand...

dirt in carpet, released by chemicals and agitation....

clean bonnet on buffer...

buffer goes round and round on carpet...

buffer stops

bonnet has dirt on it that it did not have before being in contact with carpet..

dirt from carpet is now on bonnett

QED
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

Phil @ Extreme Clean

  • Posts: 1296
Re: stand alone bonnet cleaning
« Reply #99 on: November 25, 2012, 01:08:32 pm »
VAC VAC VAC most loose soils Recovered, Prespray attack the rest of soils i'e stains etc the pad chemical and bonnet process all work together to pick up soils Simple and as hector said clean pad turns dirty because it pick up the dirt and the chemical stops the dirt reattaching itself which is why pads are designed to attract and pick up the dirt you don't see carpets made from microfibre do you.
Extreme Clean
Carpets to DRY For!!!!!

www.bookaquote.co.uk