[rycalshaw]

hi guys, as a relative newbie i,ve been thinking seriously about trying to clean using the lm method as much as i can, i have a 200 speed rotary and an e40 crb aswell as my hwe machine,the problem is there are so many conflicting opinions regarding this,many people say its for low profile commercial carpets only and not really advisable for domestics, others say they use it on everything inc wool then in the next post someone else says that if used on wool it may distort the pile etc its so confusing, when i attended the training course it was largely based around hwe so any advice would be apprieciated especially from stand alone lm cleaners..thanks

[Simon Gerrard]

Despite what the LM'ers tell you, LM is very limited in what it can do, or in what level of soiling it can deal with, going down the LM only route is probably a mistake, especially if you're not experience, so why not have both HWSE and LM and deal with each carpet as it comes along.

Simon

[Kieran Casey]

Simon is right....

What process you use depends on what you face..

We use bonnet buff for those "in between" cleans for a few of our commercial customers.

[neil 47]

Despite what the LM'ers tell you, LM is very limited in what it can do, or in what level of soiling it can deal with, going down the LM only route is probably a mistake, especially if you're not experience, so why not have both HWSE and LM and deal with each carpet as it comes along.

Simon

Simon is right , ive tried it but the type of market we are in lm coulnt cut it , on lightly soiled its great , i  now pre spray rotary, the extract  with fabric fresh on all jobs and it feels right  and smells great they all say thats smell lovely , so are anchoring in there mind pleasent feelings when u are there . but thats another thread

neil

[*Hector*]

Simon only THINKS he is right........   

I use LM in domestics, have cleaned some right mingers with it, regularly clean wool carpets with it.... There are very few that I have had to turn down..

It depends on the LM method you use, and how experienced you are....

[Simon Gerrard]

I thought you'd be on hector.
I think if you only have LM available to you, you end up seeing what you want to see, but if you have both systems you can choose the one that produces the best possible result, given the circumstances.
Hector is right in saying that it depends on your experience and if you know what you're doing you can make a dirty carpet look clean without it actually being as clean as it looks.

Simon

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

Only ever used DF and in 3 years never had a problem cleaned some mingers some carpets not clean as good as i would of liked but same with any method you use all.

If i had HWE also then that would be good but i guarantee i'd be using the DF 90% of the time.

Cheers Phil.

[Simon Gerrard]

To put it in a nutshell, a professional carpet cleaner should be in a position to clean any carpet in any location, regardless of age or condition.
The reason I don't use on a regular basis is because we've cleaned various carpets with LM and then use the TM and RX after and the result is massively better and the dirty that was still in the carpet was amazing.
Having said that we are doing a big job at the weekend which we are going to encap some of it and tm the rest, simply because it is so old and worn that we can't get a result any other way, but that is extremely rare.

Simon

[*Hector*]

To put it in a nutshell, a professional carpet cleaner should be in a position to clean any carpet in any location, regardless of age or condition.
The reason I don't use on a regular basis is because we've cleaned various carpets with LM and then use the TM and RX after and the result is massively better and the dirty that was still in the carpet was amazing.
Having said that we are doing a big job at the weekend which we are going to encap some of it and tm the rest, simply because I  AM so old and worn that we can't get a result any other way, but that is extremely rare.

Simon

fixed that for you Simon 

[Simon Gerrard]

Hector 
There was no need to tell everyone

[*Hector*]

Hector is right in saying that it depends on your experience and if you know what you're doing you can make a dirty carpet look clean without it actually being as clean as it looks.

Simon

Which at the end of the day is what we get paid for..... The customer being happy with the result... 

[Mike Halliday]

The idea that if the carpet looks clean the customer will be happy is a load of crap and is an excuse used by people who know they are not getting they carpet clean so kid them selves by using the excuse 'it looks clean'

If just getting the carpet looking clean is ok do they Explain exactly that to the
Customer?  or do they keep quite about the real truth about what they have done

Customer want thier carpets to be clean not just look clean, if you disagree then just ask them, how many will choose to have thier carpets 'looking clean' rather than really clean?

Anyone who only bonnets carpets is selling a lie they are not carpet cleaners they are 'carpet appearance technicians'  which is strange as they never have that written on thier vans.

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

So basically all the tests done by LM sellers are billox I.E Dry Fusion, Texatherm etc, and are selling there machines under false pretences ? and should state will make carpet look clean but will not be.

Would Love Sean from DF to join the debate and state exactly what he thinks or anyone who sell low moisture for that matter.

I'd also reckon cleaning a carpet HWE and left to dry would look great but cleaned again the next day the water in your tank would still be dirty ?

[Mike Halliday]

What test have they done?

Iin the majority of situations, bonnet cleaning is an appearance based system, this is especailly true in the domestic market, there is nothing wrong with this and for the commercial sector it is a preferred method as it has advantages over other systems

but if all you offer customers is bonneting cleaning then you are not being fair to the customer and rather than giving them want they want you are giving them the only thing you have.

Bonneting cleaning will never remove as much dirt as HWE so is an inferior system in the domestic market, no matter what the machine sellers say.

[John Kelly]

All carpet cleaning is an appearance clean apart from submersion cleaning of rugs. Even with the most powerful machine you will never extract all the dirt from a carpet. When submersion cleaning rugs it is sometimes 10 minutes with the hose on before the water runs clear.

[Mike Halliday]

Then we need a better way to evaluate cleaning processes by the amount of dirt removed from the carpet because we are offering a dirt removal service although we are calling it carpet cleaning this is the result of removing dirt.

And ask every customer what they want after giving them all the information and they will want clean carpets produced by the maximum amount of soil removed, not just the appearance of clean carpets

So if we use a 10 piont system with Encap at 1 as it removes no dirt to submersion cleaning at 10.

I would put bonnet cleaning at about 3

[rycalshaw]

mike, how can you say that bonnet cleaning is selling a lie and then say theres nothing wrong with it in the commercial sector,surely if its a lie its a lie in any sector as the commercial jobs are still paying customers..

[Mike Halliday]

I never said bonnet cleaning is a lie , if anything in some situations  it's the operator who is lying and not revealing all the facts to the customer.

And in the commercial sector the demands of the customers are different,  sometimes dirt removal is not the main consideration it could be down time or cost,  so given all the information they chose bonnet cleaning.  this is justified as they have all the facts and are given the choice.

[fenman]

Using this logic unless you follow this procedure on every job you are also lying to your customers.

Prior to commencing, scrub and thoroughly rinse out your recovery tank.
Clean carpet as normal.
Empty recovery tank, scrub and thoroughly rinse out.
Clean carpet again.
If recovery tank contains dirty water, empty, scrub and rinse out.
Clean carpet again.
If recovery tank contains dirty water, empty, scrub and rinse out.
Clean carpet again.
Follow above procedure until the recovered water is 100% clear.

And of course we all do this.

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

Exactly